Just learned about Marty recentlyand took a look throughat what he did. I find it a bit strange what he did. He spoke out greatly against Scientology and gave a voice for the people to be heard. Then turned his back on the ones who trusted him.Its hard to find out why or to Eve think about why he did it. I believe alot of us do have a feeling that it was Scientology or DM. At the time Marty turned the abuses of COS where being exposed so most likely the things that made Marty look bad would have come from COS. And to be honest I am not sure any of those whole have been taken seriously. But I guess fear got to him. I just don’t understand how he can live with himself acting as a friend and even family to a certain extent to people and desiding to turn on them. It is incredibly harmful to those people including their trust. But anyways I looked into Marty’s blog. The recent content was odd and even off the walls weird at points. When I owned back to look further. He really did seem to want to help. Listening to all of your (you Christie Marc and Claire) experience with Marty seemed nice until the end when you noticed things where off. I can’t imagine the betrayal you all felt. Specifically you and Christie. You mentioned if your book that Marty raved about how great Christie was. Then when you met her being introduced by another friend seeing that Marty was right. And then you both all being incredibly close woth them to the extent where Marty acted as Christie’s father walking her down the isle at your wedding and even writing and open letter to Christie’s father. Then turning on you made me incredibly infuriated. Slightly off topic I read the letter on his blog and saw the pictures as well and you both look absolutely stunning. (Christie looks beyond beautiful) It looks like it was an incredible wedding for two incredible people.
I didn’t know much about Marty Rathbun before this live. I rewatched it a few days ago. I haven’t looked into Scientology for that long I’m relatively new. But knowing what Marty did when he turned back into being in someone good standing with Scientology to make those videos about you and the others that he was one’s friends with, irked me. He is not only your friend but many others. To the point where you and Christie wanted him to be in your wedding in one way or another (btw i went on the Martys blog and fowd the post with the open tetter to Christies dad. And saw the wedding photos You both looked fantastic) .
I can’t really imagine the affect of that betrayal that must have had on not only the friends that he had but I mean you and Christie. After he helped so many it kind of gave me a mixed emotions. But anyway I really enjoyed this video it was informative on who Marty was and what you thought and what you saw in him. But the question is that you answered from the viewers were also fun to listen to. You all are very entertaining group to listen to you guys are like a family and it’s nice to see that knowing that you all lost your families.
Sorry, this video rubs me wrong. I have no bone to pick with any of you. I spent a good deal of money and a good part of my this-life-time “best years” in Scn and the SO, ‘74-‘89. In those years, from time to time I ran across Marty, but only briefly. During my time in the Independent Scn movement, he gave me a hand up when I needed it and asked no pay.
One of the things I have learned in this past year, is a lesson about judgement. What one does is really between himself/herself and God. From various accounts, I’ve come to understand that each of us chose the lessons we wanted to learn in this life and we have done so and are continuing to do so. I believe it is no-ones place to judge another; it is one of the hardest things to stop doing: judging others AND self. If you don’t care to be judged by others, imagine how others feel being judged by you! All things we do are part of lessons we are learning as Spirit.
Karma may come to play in all of this, but these days, I’m not so sure about that either.
None of us have the full story on what happened between Marty/Mosey and the “church”. I’m sure Marty/Mosey made the best decision they could for themselves and their family. Not one of us who were not included in that agreement has any right to judge Marty/Mosey for their actions/decisions. I don’t care what Marty did when he was in the church and when he was in the Independent Scn movement. Did he kill anyone, maybe he assaulted you or otherwise messed you up, maybe he helped you, maybe he hurt your feelings and maybe he didn’t consult with you and get your blessings, but he had to move on and so do we all.
The Marty story might be somewhat helpful to those needing to understand their past with Marty and the “church”, but honestly, present time is what is most important in any life.
As a side note, I read Marty’s Substack posting. He is not far wrong. Anyone who sniggers, laughs or clicks their tongue at Marty’s attempt to describe God/Almighty/All Knowing/Universe/etc, should, as an exercise, try themselves to put to pen what they believe “God is” no less publish their thoughts on the matter. It is a challenging task!
I am not a Marty/Mosey apologist. My opinion: it is unfair to one and all to so publicly malign them, especially when their full story is unknown.
I understand, but, in the long run, they are all lessons for you, me and everyone concerned. If you can forgive and let them go, great. If you can’t, well you can’t. Learn from them!
As a writer with 30+ year’s experience in a variety of disciplines, a certificated English teacher and a certified Master Tutor with the College Reading and Learning Association, to me this does not read like Marty is trying to explain HIS concept of God. To me, this reads to me like Marty is pumping out what he thinks OTHERS will believe is his concept of God, in an attempt to convince those with whom he has dealt falsely that he has “seen the light.”
Many convicts do the same thing in an attempt to convince a parole board they are reformed, and this Martypedia entry feels like this to me. He knows he has jettisoned all of his former friendships, and cannot go back to them for solace, so he does the next thing he thinks of — a jailhouse conversion.
And most jailhouse conversions are fleeting. We’ll see how long this one lasts.
I’m not taking sides as to who may be right, who may be wrong. Choosing sides and JUDGING. resultingly beefs up the battle, war, or bank, if you’d like. It’s starting another me-against-you. It’s a manipulation to persuade the viewer to choose sides, to choose and judge who is right, who is wrong. It’ll stick you on your time track.
Marty has done whatever he has done and will have to live with his decisions, just as anyone would. Did he kill you? Steal your spouse or your money away from you? Some other crime(s) against humanity?
Marty changed his mind….so what!? You’ve judged that he’s been treasonous to you, well, move on; then he’s not your friend, disconnect. Marty chose his path, you choose your path and get on with it. You don’t have to listen to Marty. Make up your own mind about Scn/SO/Indy movement and move on with your life. Does judging Marty (or anyone else for that matter) about his sanity/insanity make your life any better or easier?
I’ve crawled out of the Scn rabbit-hole by making up my own mind. I’ve made up my own mind and then changed my mind and then changed it again as I study other people and what they say/do. I’m not a victim of my Scn/SO/Indie Scn experience; I walked into it, experienced it, learned my lessons and left. What works for me, works for me, what works for you, works for you. Or it doesn’t and then maybe you’ll change your mind too. It is not a crime to change your mind!
Marty and all the other billions on this planet are not the cause in your life, you are.
Linda, just an fyi; in your exoritation of the people you believe are being unfairly judgemental of Marty Rathbun, you sound decidedly judgemental yourself.
“Marty changed his mind…so what?” Seriously?
Quite a disingenuous dismissal of an uncommunicated and completely as yet to date unexplained decision, a decision which shocked and stunned his friends and supporters. and a decision which continues to reverberate and “stick” them because from him to date there has been no explanation.
Can you understand how different the reaction would have been if there had been some prior explanation forthcoming from him? Of course, given the nature of the decision he could NOT explain, was forbidden from explaining, but that does not mitigate the reaction that his decision caused.
And lest you think I am whining and moaning about his change of heart, you should know that on this blog and elsewhere I have shared that Marty Rathbun’s blog was of incalculable assistance to me back in the day when I was UTR and quietly gathering the strength and courage to leave the cult. In fact, I don’t think I could have left without having been able to read it every day back then. I’ve shared it before with everyone here: I have no back off in stating that I owe Marty Rathbun a great debt.
This is a blog wherein people who have been in varying degrees wounded by their own decisions with regard to the Church of Scientology. It is a safe spent to vent.
Another point:
When people vent here, it doesn’t necessarily mean that they haven’t “moved on”.
With regard to Marty’s sudden, unexplained and apparently totally non sequitur turn around, there were people close to him whose trust in him was severely betrayed. Betrayal after trust hurts. I personally was not hurt. I was quite unpleasantly surprised, and quite puzzled. But Marty double-crossed a number of people close to him. Of course they got over it. Of course they’ve moved on.
But hurt like this doesn’t go away, especially when one never hears the real reason(s) from the person who inflicted it. Hurt like this is a total mindfuck and a heartfuck, Linda. It STAYS there.
Have you ever trusted anyone, really trusted someone, and then been screwed over by that person, with no explanation whatsoever? If so, how did that feel? Can you still feel it? I’ll bet you can, even though it is not keeping you from functioning or enjoying much else of what your life has to offer.
Thank you for reading this and I hope that it has not given you any offense, because I too believe that the ongoing judging others can be quite detrimental to one’s own mental, emothional and even physical health.
But, hey, you know? Its hard, sometimes, to let go, to forgive. Betrayal after trust is the worst – really there is nothing worse.
Aquamarine, I am not offended and glad to entertain a well thought out reply. I understand everything you are saying here. I have tried my best to remain non-judgemental of all involved. It is an interesting exercise.
Yes, I felt betrayed as well when Marty left the Indy movement and disappointed when he and Mosey dropped their legal case. And yes, I have been mightily betrayed and judgemental of others but as time has passed, I have found it in my heart to forgive, but I don’t forget and don’t completely trust that person again. It is part of learning lessons and growing spiritually.
You didn’t think you were getting out of this lifetime completely unscathed, did you? We have suffered betrayal after betrayal from the beginning of the universe all the way to now, here on Earth.
I too feel we all owe a great deal to Marty and what he did for the Indy movement, and really, for his push for each of us to examine our individual sovereignty outside and away from Scn. His reading recommendations were excellent, thought provoking. From his blog I learned many new concepts about ethos, pathos and logos. Am I intellectually engaged by him? Yes. Trust him? I don’t know; the jury is still out. Not all evidence has been presented.
It is said that before we started our incarnation, as the best of the best coming here, we all agreed to these things and signed contracts to do so. We came here to complete a mission. Well. Wasn’t/isn’t Marty and his input, an interesting, exciting part of that mission? Did you learn anything? I sure have. We’ve survived Miscavige, Marty and Scn/SO/Indy movement and have lived to tell about it!
Its only now that I’m reading your response. Sorry for the delay.
We are totally on the same page, you and I, with regard to Marty Rathbun.
I too admire him and am grateful to him. But trust him, now? No, I cannot. I did trust him once, but an abrupt withdrawel from communication and an effective disconnection with no explanation ended that trust of course.
That said, without knowing the actual facts, I do not – cannot – blame him. Who knows what pressures were brought to bear on him? We’ve all been speculating. Or maybe he just got tired and wanted the money. Or a combination of both. Who knows?
There’s this void, and llike so many others I would like it filled with actual facts so that I can feel whatever I will feel based on the whole truth and nothing but the truth. But I’m not holding my breath, and my respect for his courage and leadership, as well as my gratitude to him remain untarnished. This is easy for me because he didn’t hurt or betray me PERSONALLY.
I too believe that we have lived many lives and will continue to do so, and that lessons not learned in any current lifetime
will not disappear, but will have to be resolved in future lifetimes. I’m very glad that I believe in past lives and future lives for myself as it makes physical body death not a big deal.
I just hope I don’t have to come back as a man. Shaving my face, no more frilly lingerie…I’m not gonna like it.
rosemariesays
i watched the video. what a great group of MCsquared! i noticed that whatever Marty does he does it in a big way. i agree he may have some emotional issues but he did hurt his friends big time. i think that must add to any emotional issues. i understand Marty’s writing in this instance by the way. i think he has stated some spiritual truths. either way he created huge effects in and out of scn. we all benefited greatly by his leaving in 2009 for years. many got out of scn due to him leaving. sigh.
The Gospel of Thomas is from the Gnostic scriptures. Sometimes the word “Apocrypha” is used to describe them. They are scriptures that were deemed heretical and rounded up for destruction. The history of the Nag Hammadi discovery is very interesting (that is the place where some were found), The Gnostic gospels themselves are very interesting. I highly recommend Elaine Page’s discussion on YouTube about the Gospel of Thomas.
I saw your chat last night about Marty and at one point towards the end somebody said that the reason Marty took c o s’s deal was because there was proof that he had abused his son well Aaron did a video on that, that was why Marty turncoated
Because they threatened to make public the evidence they had and Marty didn’t want to lose his son I’m sending a link to the video the Aaron did https://www.youtube.com/live/TDyyf5ei6bw?si=5qi_AEhZhGmvVwfE
Does Aaron have proof of this? Has anyone seen the tape that supposedly exists of Marty physically mistreating the kid? I think it is just more speculation as to what the church had on Marty to make him cave in and go with them. I do think they threatened something about the adoption of his son and it had Marty totally rattled. You can see it on the Theroux movie when the Squirrel Busters came and started talking about the adoption and his son and then Marty got really snarky and mean with Theroux and others after that. It also could have been they were playing a poker-like bluff on Marty to make him think they had something on him regarding his kid. I guess none of us will know and the damage is done via all his POW tapes.
I don’t think this information about him abusing his son is true. Based on my experience with him and also checking with others who might know and they don’t believe it’s credible either.
I left a reply but don’t see it so I’ll try again. I loved the video of all four of you. Great job.
I think this whole turncoat thing with Marty didn’t have to happen. He could have accomplished financial security without taking DM’s settlement. He was winning the lawsuit that Mosey brought against the C of S and David Miscavige. Everyone in the know agrees on that, that they were really trouncing the church and would win the lawsuit,. So if Marty had allowed it to go all the way to the finish line, he would have had a court ordered settlement and winnings of tons of money., So by seeing it through, his son would have been set for life as would Marty and Mosey, and that is without taking a dime from DM.
Also when Mike said that the church probably told Marty, you’re 60 (or whatever his age was), you don’t have a house, don’t work and admit you are unemployable, so you don’t bring in money, and you have no real college fund for your kid, you need us to pay you big bucks. My answer to that is: has anyone heard of life insurance? This is what life insurance is for. Even if he couldn’t qualify for regular life insurance, he could have qualified for guaranteed life insurance called Final Expense and at least got $50,000 for $25 to $30 a month. And Mosey, as a nurse, could have qualified for a lot more money in life insurance for not much money. And plus he would have had the court ordered payout from winning the lawsuit, which he was doing.
And the Fair Game would have had to stop by court order when he won his case. So Marty didn’t have to take DM’s payout to stop the harassment. That would have stopped with court ordered restraining orders and other orders upon winning.
It is a shame that Marty didn’t see that he could have had it all if he’d just let the case wrap up naturally. And he wouldn’t have had to betray all his friends and the lawyers, and the Ex Scns and Indie Scns. By betraying his friends and doing his “Prisoner of War Videos” he went against his own integrity and that will mess with your head. It will ruin you mentally. And it didn’t have to happen. It could have been avoided without losing anything if he’d just let the lawsuit complete and win. Shaking my head.
Cindy,
From what I’ve seen, heard, and read Marty may have left Scientology but Scientology never left Marty. Most of the people who leave the church still believe all the smootz that LRH spouted. If you go on this very blog and read Mike’s open letter to his children written just after he escaped, you will see even Mike still believed the teachings of L. Ron. The vast majority (like Mike) eventually see through all the nonsense and realize it was ALL nonsense, not just what the Dear Leader has said and done. Marty never really woke up. The money just helped him jump back in.
I see your point Miss Dutch. I’ve seen when people first leave the church they are still believers in the tech, and are just against DM and his squirreling of the tech. And then over the years and after going down lots of rabbit holes researching, they give up their belief that the tech works. It is a several step process in leaving and takes time to come to that. I believe Marty did come to the point where he didn’t believe the tech worked. My proof of that is a friend of mine bought the “class” he was selling where he taught you how to think and reason or something like that. The guy did the lessons and talked to Marty on all of them and came out the other end knowing with certainty that Scn was a bunch of BS and the tech didn’t work etc. Marty taught him that. So I don’t think that now Marty is back in the fold with Scn. They wouldn’t have him even though he has done the step of striking a blow and even though he has decimated all the people talking badly of Scn. So they let Marty do the POW tapes, but they don’t let him back in the church to do services etc. He is a man without a country, but money to burn and no friends to spend it with. Sad really.
Oh and a ps to that: that same friend who took Marty’s class went to visit him about 6 months or a year after that. He and his wife stayed overnight at Marty’s house. He said Marty had changed and was very bitter and angry and acted kind of crazy or insane. He dropped his comm line with Marty after that.
Fascinating video of Mike, Christie, Marc and Claire about Marty and what went down. Good job. So Miscavige got to Marty on how will he provide for his kid and wife when he dies? Have you ever heard of buying Life Insurance??? And by all accounts Marty and Mosey were winning the lawsuit against C of S and David Miscavige. So if he would have continued to the finish line, the Church would have had to pay tons of money to him in damages. He could have gotten the money to provide for his son by winning the case, which he was doing. And the church PI’s and shenanigans would have stopped by court order when he won the case also. So Marty could have received tons of money without having to betray his friends and the ex and Indie world and turned into a turncoat as he did. He went against his own integrity, and that harms him immensely. All of this could have been avoided.
Just learned about Marty recentlyand took a look throughat what he did. I find it a bit strange what he did. He spoke out greatly against Scientology and gave a voice for the people to be heard. Then turned his back on the ones who trusted him.Its hard to find out why or to Eve think about why he did it. I believe alot of us do have a feeling that it was Scientology or DM. At the time Marty turned the abuses of COS where being exposed so most likely the things that made Marty look bad would have come from COS. And to be honest I am not sure any of those whole have been taken seriously. But I guess fear got to him. I just don’t understand how he can live with himself acting as a friend and even family to a certain extent to people and desiding to turn on them. It is incredibly harmful to those people including their trust. But anyways I looked into Marty’s blog. The recent content was odd and even off the walls weird at points. When I owned back to look further. He really did seem to want to help. Listening to all of your (you Christie Marc and Claire) experience with Marty seemed nice until the end when you noticed things where off. I can’t imagine the betrayal you all felt. Specifically you and Christie. You mentioned if your book that Marty raved about how great Christie was. Then when you met her being introduced by another friend seeing that Marty was right. And then you both all being incredibly close woth them to the extent where Marty acted as Christie’s father walking her down the isle at your wedding and even writing and open letter to Christie’s father. Then turning on you made me incredibly infuriated. Slightly off topic I read the letter on his blog and saw the pictures as well and you both look absolutely stunning. (Christie looks beyond beautiful) It looks like it was an incredible wedding for two incredible people.
I didn’t know much about Marty Rathbun before this live. I rewatched it a few days ago. I haven’t looked into Scientology for that long I’m relatively new. But knowing what Marty did when he turned back into being in someone good standing with Scientology to make those videos about you and the others that he was one’s friends with, irked me. He is not only your friend but many others. To the point where you and Christie wanted him to be in your wedding in one way or another (btw i went on the Martys blog and fowd the post with the open tetter to Christies dad. And saw the wedding photos You both looked fantastic) .
I can’t really imagine the affect of that betrayal that must have had on not only the friends that he had but I mean you and Christie. After he helped so many it kind of gave me a mixed emotions. But anyway I really enjoyed this video it was informative on who Marty was and what you thought and what you saw in him. But the question is that you answered from the viewers were also fun to listen to. You all are very entertaining group to listen to you guys are like a family and it’s nice to see that knowing that you all lost your families.
Sending so much love to you all from Maine❤️
Ashton
Excellent show, thanks so much for the detailed explanation of Marty’s breakdown leading up to his settling.
Does Mike think Monique Yingling was the one who approached Marty for the settlement?
I suspect not. I think Miscavige himself would do this as it was so important.
Sorry, this video rubs me wrong. I have no bone to pick with any of you. I spent a good deal of money and a good part of my this-life-time “best years” in Scn and the SO, ‘74-‘89. In those years, from time to time I ran across Marty, but only briefly. During my time in the Independent Scn movement, he gave me a hand up when I needed it and asked no pay.
One of the things I have learned in this past year, is a lesson about judgement. What one does is really between himself/herself and God. From various accounts, I’ve come to understand that each of us chose the lessons we wanted to learn in this life and we have done so and are continuing to do so. I believe it is no-ones place to judge another; it is one of the hardest things to stop doing: judging others AND self. If you don’t care to be judged by others, imagine how others feel being judged by you! All things we do are part of lessons we are learning as Spirit.
Karma may come to play in all of this, but these days, I’m not so sure about that either.
None of us have the full story on what happened between Marty/Mosey and the “church”. I’m sure Marty/Mosey made the best decision they could for themselves and their family. Not one of us who were not included in that agreement has any right to judge Marty/Mosey for their actions/decisions. I don’t care what Marty did when he was in the church and when he was in the Independent Scn movement. Did he kill anyone, maybe he assaulted you or otherwise messed you up, maybe he helped you, maybe he hurt your feelings and maybe he didn’t consult with you and get your blessings, but he had to move on and so do we all.
The Marty story might be somewhat helpful to those needing to understand their past with Marty and the “church”, but honestly, present time is what is most important in any life.
As a side note, I read Marty’s Substack posting. He is not far wrong. Anyone who sniggers, laughs or clicks their tongue at Marty’s attempt to describe God/Almighty/All Knowing/Universe/etc, should, as an exercise, try themselves to put to pen what they believe “God is” no less publish their thoughts on the matter. It is a challenging task!
I am not a Marty/Mosey apologist. My opinion: it is unfair to one and all to so publicly malign them, especially when their full story is unknown.
The issue is more that he turned on people who he had supported and had supported him.
I understand, but, in the long run, they are all lessons for you, me and everyone concerned. If you can forgive and let them go, great. If you can’t, well you can’t. Learn from them!
As a writer with 30+ year’s experience in a variety of disciplines, a certificated English teacher and a certified Master Tutor with the College Reading and Learning Association, to me this does not read like Marty is trying to explain HIS concept of God. To me, this reads to me like Marty is pumping out what he thinks OTHERS will believe is his concept of God, in an attempt to convince those with whom he has dealt falsely that he has “seen the light.”
Many convicts do the same thing in an attempt to convince a parole board they are reformed, and this Martypedia entry feels like this to me. He knows he has jettisoned all of his former friendships, and cannot go back to them for solace, so he does the next thing he thinks of — a jailhouse conversion.
And most jailhouse conversions are fleeting. We’ll see how long this one lasts.
Have you listen to him lying his face off about Mike and Leah, or read his BS?
This man totally Effed over many truly good people who are doing good things all while having their own recovery from the cult.
He LIES on camera against good people.
He can’t be trusted and his filth is out there for others to see.
Speaking out against him is important.
I’m not taking sides as to who may be right, who may be wrong. Choosing sides and JUDGING. resultingly beefs up the battle, war, or bank, if you’d like. It’s starting another me-against-you. It’s a manipulation to persuade the viewer to choose sides, to choose and judge who is right, who is wrong. It’ll stick you on your time track.
Marty has done whatever he has done and will have to live with his decisions, just as anyone would. Did he kill you? Steal your spouse or your money away from you? Some other crime(s) against humanity?
Marty changed his mind….so what!? You’ve judged that he’s been treasonous to you, well, move on; then he’s not your friend, disconnect. Marty chose his path, you choose your path and get on with it. You don’t have to listen to Marty. Make up your own mind about Scn/SO/Indy movement and move on with your life. Does judging Marty (or anyone else for that matter) about his sanity/insanity make your life any better or easier?
I’ve crawled out of the Scn rabbit-hole by making up my own mind. I’ve made up my own mind and then changed my mind and then changed it again as I study other people and what they say/do. I’m not a victim of my Scn/SO/Indie Scn experience; I walked into it, experienced it, learned my lessons and left. What works for me, works for me, what works for you, works for you. Or it doesn’t and then maybe you’ll change your mind too. It is not a crime to change your mind!
Marty and all the other billions on this planet are not the cause in your life, you are.
Linda, just an fyi; in your exoritation of the people you believe are being unfairly judgemental of Marty Rathbun, you sound decidedly judgemental yourself.
“Marty changed his mind…so what?” Seriously?
Quite a disingenuous dismissal of an uncommunicated and completely as yet to date unexplained decision, a decision which shocked and stunned his friends and supporters. and a decision which continues to reverberate and “stick” them because from him to date there has been no explanation.
Can you understand how different the reaction would have been if there had been some prior explanation forthcoming from him? Of course, given the nature of the decision he could NOT explain, was forbidden from explaining, but that does not mitigate the reaction that his decision caused.
And lest you think I am whining and moaning about his change of heart, you should know that on this blog and elsewhere I have shared that Marty Rathbun’s blog was of incalculable assistance to me back in the day when I was UTR and quietly gathering the strength and courage to leave the cult. In fact, I don’t think I could have left without having been able to read it every day back then. I’ve shared it before with everyone here: I have no back off in stating that I owe Marty Rathbun a great debt.
This is a blog wherein people who have been in varying degrees wounded by their own decisions with regard to the Church of Scientology. It is a safe spent to vent.
Another point:
When people vent here, it doesn’t necessarily mean that they haven’t “moved on”.
With regard to Marty’s sudden, unexplained and apparently totally non sequitur turn around, there were people close to him whose trust in him was severely betrayed. Betrayal after trust hurts. I personally was not hurt. I was quite unpleasantly surprised, and quite puzzled. But Marty double-crossed a number of people close to him. Of course they got over it. Of course they’ve moved on.
But hurt like this doesn’t go away, especially when one never hears the real reason(s) from the person who inflicted it. Hurt like this is a total mindfuck and a heartfuck, Linda. It STAYS there.
Have you ever trusted anyone, really trusted someone, and then been screwed over by that person, with no explanation whatsoever? If so, how did that feel? Can you still feel it? I’ll bet you can, even though it is not keeping you from functioning or enjoying much else of what your life has to offer.
Thank you for reading this and I hope that it has not given you any offense, because I too believe that the ongoing judging others can be quite detrimental to one’s own mental, emothional and even physical health.
But, hey, you know? Its hard, sometimes, to let go, to forgive. Betrayal after trust is the worst – really there is nothing worse.
PS: Grammar errors galore, sorry. Always the case when I’m typing emotional and typing 🙂
Oh, God, I’m cringing. The ghost of Archie Bunker lives with these typos: “exoriation” is how the word is spelled.
Aquamarine, I am not offended and glad to entertain a well thought out reply. I understand everything you are saying here. I have tried my best to remain non-judgemental of all involved. It is an interesting exercise.
Yes, I felt betrayed as well when Marty left the Indy movement and disappointed when he and Mosey dropped their legal case. And yes, I have been mightily betrayed and judgemental of others but as time has passed, I have found it in my heart to forgive, but I don’t forget and don’t completely trust that person again. It is part of learning lessons and growing spiritually.
You didn’t think you were getting out of this lifetime completely unscathed, did you? We have suffered betrayal after betrayal from the beginning of the universe all the way to now, here on Earth.
I too feel we all owe a great deal to Marty and what he did for the Indy movement, and really, for his push for each of us to examine our individual sovereignty outside and away from Scn. His reading recommendations were excellent, thought provoking. From his blog I learned many new concepts about ethos, pathos and logos. Am I intellectually engaged by him? Yes. Trust him? I don’t know; the jury is still out. Not all evidence has been presented.
It is said that before we started our incarnation, as the best of the best coming here, we all agreed to these things and signed contracts to do so. We came here to complete a mission. Well. Wasn’t/isn’t Marty and his input, an interesting, exciting part of that mission? Did you learn anything? I sure have. We’ve survived Miscavige, Marty and Scn/SO/Indy movement and have lived to tell about it!
Is there more to come? Quite probably. Buckle up!
Linda,
Its only now that I’m reading your response. Sorry for the delay.
We are totally on the same page, you and I, with regard to Marty Rathbun.
I too admire him and am grateful to him. But trust him, now? No, I cannot. I did trust him once, but an abrupt withdrawel from communication and an effective disconnection with no explanation ended that trust of course.
That said, without knowing the actual facts, I do not – cannot – blame him. Who knows what pressures were brought to bear on him? We’ve all been speculating. Or maybe he just got tired and wanted the money. Or a combination of both. Who knows?
There’s this void, and llike so many others I would like it filled with actual facts so that I can feel whatever I will feel based on the whole truth and nothing but the truth. But I’m not holding my breath, and my respect for his courage and leadership, as well as my gratitude to him remain untarnished. This is easy for me because he didn’t hurt or betray me PERSONALLY.
I too believe that we have lived many lives and will continue to do so, and that lessons not learned in any current lifetime
will not disappear, but will have to be resolved in future lifetimes. I’m very glad that I believe in past lives and future lives for myself as it makes physical body death not a big deal.
I just hope I don’t have to come back as a man. Shaving my face, no more frilly lingerie…I’m not gonna like it.
i watched the video. what a great group of MCsquared! i noticed that whatever Marty does he does it in a big way. i agree he may have some emotional issues but he did hurt his friends big time. i think that must add to any emotional issues. i understand Marty’s writing in this instance by the way. i think he has stated some spiritual truths. either way he created huge effects in and out of scn. we all benefited greatly by his leaving in 2009 for years. many got out of scn due to him leaving. sigh.
The Gospel of Thomas is from the Gnostic scriptures. Sometimes the word “Apocrypha” is used to describe them. They are scriptures that were deemed heretical and rounded up for destruction. The history of the Nag Hammadi discovery is very interesting (that is the place where some were found), The Gnostic gospels themselves are very interesting. I highly recommend Elaine Page’s discussion on YouTube about the Gospel of Thomas.
I saw your chat last night about Marty and at one point towards the end somebody said that the reason Marty took c o s’s deal was because there was proof that he had abused his son well Aaron did a video on that, that was why Marty turncoated
Because they threatened to make public the evidence they had and Marty didn’t want to lose his son I’m sending a link to the video the Aaron did
https://www.youtube.com/live/TDyyf5ei6bw?si=5qi_AEhZhGmvVwfE
Does Aaron have proof of this? Has anyone seen the tape that supposedly exists of Marty physically mistreating the kid? I think it is just more speculation as to what the church had on Marty to make him cave in and go with them. I do think they threatened something about the adoption of his son and it had Marty totally rattled. You can see it on the Theroux movie when the Squirrel Busters came and started talking about the adoption and his son and then Marty got really snarky and mean with Theroux and others after that. It also could have been they were playing a poker-like bluff on Marty to make him think they had something on him regarding his kid. I guess none of us will know and the damage is done via all his POW tapes.
I don’t think this information about him abusing his son is true. Based on my experience with him and also checking with others who might know and they don’t believe it’s credible either.
I left a reply but don’t see it so I’ll try again. I loved the video of all four of you. Great job.
I think this whole turncoat thing with Marty didn’t have to happen. He could have accomplished financial security without taking DM’s settlement. He was winning the lawsuit that Mosey brought against the C of S and David Miscavige. Everyone in the know agrees on that, that they were really trouncing the church and would win the lawsuit,. So if Marty had allowed it to go all the way to the finish line, he would have had a court ordered settlement and winnings of tons of money., So by seeing it through, his son would have been set for life as would Marty and Mosey, and that is without taking a dime from DM.
Also when Mike said that the church probably told Marty, you’re 60 (or whatever his age was), you don’t have a house, don’t work and admit you are unemployable, so you don’t bring in money, and you have no real college fund for your kid, you need us to pay you big bucks. My answer to that is: has anyone heard of life insurance? This is what life insurance is for. Even if he couldn’t qualify for regular life insurance, he could have qualified for guaranteed life insurance called Final Expense and at least got $50,000 for $25 to $30 a month. And Mosey, as a nurse, could have qualified for a lot more money in life insurance for not much money. And plus he would have had the court ordered payout from winning the lawsuit, which he was doing.
And the Fair Game would have had to stop by court order when he won his case. So Marty didn’t have to take DM’s payout to stop the harassment. That would have stopped with court ordered restraining orders and other orders upon winning.
It is a shame that Marty didn’t see that he could have had it all if he’d just let the case wrap up naturally. And he wouldn’t have had to betray all his friends and the lawyers, and the Ex Scns and Indie Scns. By betraying his friends and doing his “Prisoner of War Videos” he went against his own integrity and that will mess with your head. It will ruin you mentally. And it didn’t have to happen. It could have been avoided without losing anything if he’d just let the lawsuit complete and win. Shaking my head.
Cindy,
From what I’ve seen, heard, and read Marty may have left Scientology but Scientology never left Marty. Most of the people who leave the church still believe all the smootz that LRH spouted. If you go on this very blog and read Mike’s open letter to his children written just after he escaped, you will see even Mike still believed the teachings of L. Ron. The vast majority (like Mike) eventually see through all the nonsense and realize it was ALL nonsense, not just what the Dear Leader has said and done. Marty never really woke up. The money just helped him jump back in.
I see your point Miss Dutch. I’ve seen when people first leave the church they are still believers in the tech, and are just against DM and his squirreling of the tech. And then over the years and after going down lots of rabbit holes researching, they give up their belief that the tech works. It is a several step process in leaving and takes time to come to that. I believe Marty did come to the point where he didn’t believe the tech worked. My proof of that is a friend of mine bought the “class” he was selling where he taught you how to think and reason or something like that. The guy did the lessons and talked to Marty on all of them and came out the other end knowing with certainty that Scn was a bunch of BS and the tech didn’t work etc. Marty taught him that. So I don’t think that now Marty is back in the fold with Scn. They wouldn’t have him even though he has done the step of striking a blow and even though he has decimated all the people talking badly of Scn. So they let Marty do the POW tapes, but they don’t let him back in the church to do services etc. He is a man without a country, but money to burn and no friends to spend it with. Sad really.
Oh and a ps to that: that same friend who took Marty’s class went to visit him about 6 months or a year after that. He and his wife stayed overnight at Marty’s house. He said Marty had changed and was very bitter and angry and acted kind of crazy or insane. He dropped his comm line with Marty after that.
Fascinating video of Mike, Christie, Marc and Claire about Marty and what went down. Good job. So Miscavige got to Marty on how will he provide for his kid and wife when he dies? Have you ever heard of buying Life Insurance??? And by all accounts Marty and Mosey were winning the lawsuit against C of S and David Miscavige. So if he would have continued to the finish line, the Church would have had to pay tons of money to him in damages. He could have gotten the money to provide for his son by winning the case, which he was doing. And the church PI’s and shenanigans would have stopped by court order when he won the case also. So Marty could have received tons of money without having to betray his friends and the ex and Indie world and turned into a turncoat as he did. He went against his own integrity, and that harms him immensely. All of this could have been avoided.