According to this promotional piece, L11 handles everything. So why bother with OT levels? Or anything else for that matter?
But then again, there are a lot of “success” stories about every scientology service (Student Hat, Purif, Objectives, Grades, Dianetics, PTS RD, Word Clearing and on and on ad nauseum) where the person proclaims it holds the answers to EVERYTHING and has made them TOTAL CAUSE on all dynamics or “no longer effect of the physical universe” or whatever. Of course, none of them are true. I saw something today proclaiming that OT VIII absolutely “cures” “amnesia on the whole track.” This is the ultimate accomplishment in scientology. Yet it’s such a transparent lie, simply demonstrated as false. Have ANY OT VIII completion provide the details of their life before this one. Forget “whole track” — just ONE lifetime. Name, details about their life, where they lived etc. In today’s world it is easy enough to check records. Hell you could do it with a Google search. If they cannot recall their last life it stands to reason their “amnesia on the whole track” is NOT cured. This IS the stated result of completing OT VIII.
I am happy for people who feel they are better for having done a service. But the enforced success stories and claims of “End Phenomena” are simply absurd. The statements made have grown more and more outrageous over time because everything in scientology always has to be bigger and better than whatever came before. Success stories in scientology today are like German marks in 1923. A wheelbarrow full of them wouldn’t get you a loaf of bread and stacks of them could be used as children’s building blocks. Hyperinflation of hype has caught up with scientology.
PS: And after 50 years, there are THIRTY Class XII auditors! And they are proud of this. There are more one legged unicycle riders in the world than this. The difference is that the unicycle riders aren’t trying to convince anyone they are “salvaging this sector of the universe” or “clearing the planet.”
If King David was really an SP,he would put KSW in the back of the Student Hat Course instead of in the front where the importance of it would sink in as LRH intended.
So,can anyone tell me the difference between Hitler and the Holocaust victims and King David and staff ? I see ribs showing on staff members under King David just like the Jews under Hitler. Anybody else see that ?
If you were in SP,how would you suppress OTs ? King David did it with invalidation of LRH tech with the new and improved OT this and OT that. You see LRH had it all wrong. Thank God King David Miscarriage fixed it. King David was known as the worst Class IV auditor ever and as C/S of Lisa McPherson he proved to be the worst C/S ever. That Overrun and Invalidation stuff makes King David the King ! Don’t believe me ? Just ask King David! And if you’re still being audited in King David’s Church instead of LRH’s Church,expect to be the next Lisa McPherson. P.S. Can I now be Declared ?
Didn’t LRH have a Rundown that handled SPs,Yanked them up the Track ? What was this Rundown and why isn’t it being used ??
Another great post, Mike.
Anyone else have no clue what scientologists believe?
The defining answer to that question is: millions* of scientologists
[*source of that quantitative information: renowned scientologist Kirstie Alley]
I know, that sounded snarky.
But, all scientologists, (is it save to say), “believe” in L. Ron Hubbard,
and about him they (apparently) have no clue, including Ms. A, who
still either believes there are “millions of scn-gists”, or simply refuses to retract the assertion that there are so many. Note the plural of that word. I believe that 99.999% of those millions are both invisible and mute,
as mute as the leader,
DAVID MISCAVIGE.
Dr. Martin L. King
says something about silence. Basically, he says that a silent man is not worth his salt. DAVID MISCAVIGE, remains, as always, unavailable for comment.
And thank you all for speaking, including the very special scientologists who DO, in or out.
All we want is the Truth.
love the kids,
happily playing the falling house of cards game, charming.
Would that be the young dave*, cute, becoming interested in a new hobby, perhaps…
what a cherished memory that would be,
(sigh) Did I just hear a siren, no, what is that… a
siren?
DM may be an ignorant sociopath, heartlessly self-oriented, hopelessly lost to dementia and abandoned by humanity,
but…
despite everything,
he still holds on to that god-like optimism.
Obviously, OT X does work remarkably well. Just look what is does for Dave!
[*DAVID MISCAVIGE] Just goes to show ya,
ITS ALL ABOUT WHAT YOU BELIEVE.
[Has every scientologist on the planet written a thank you note to – DAVID MISCAVIGE – ?
That must be fun, a break in the middle of your busy day.] But, relax yourself Dave…
Hang in there. Be cheery. It’ll be all downhill from here. You made it, believe it, you’re done. Go read your fan-mail, read yourself to sleep, or take some quality me-time… that happy stuff is so limited, you kno- – that! – – that sound, almost like a church bell. Is it the conch shell from Lord of the Flies? A dolphin-god,
calling… me?
Just WHAT IS THAT I hear?
Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee.
[*dm]
The real deal:
http://www.carolbowman.com/dr-ian-stevenson/past-life-sleuth/
Oh good gravy.
Those naughty evil psychs from Farsec have tricked all the sheepbots who do L11. They’ve hidden another amnesia bomb that only triggers after you think (not a good idea in $camology) your whole track has been cured. Then you will need to dig into your wallet, purse, bank account, etc to be cured again. And again and again.
Hey! The Psychs may be brutal, but, but, Farsec is a pretty bitchin’ place! Lots of great surf spots. And the Farsec women are…..well, you’ll just have to go there.
In 1982, (34 years ago !) I was the Class XII CS in FSO, CSing the Ls auditors. There were 24 Ls auditors. So in 34 years the quantity of Ls auditors went from 24 to 30 ….
Higher classed auditors have been harder to tame into submissiveness, hence 90% of Class XIIs have been declared suppressive beings (anti-social characters)
(98% of Class XII CSes (case supervisors) were declared *suppressive* ) LOLOL.
Extrapolation:
Those that want to endure brutal Interneships to Class XII are anti-social suppressive persons.
OJ Roos (Declared. Alive in New Zealand)
Liese Klingvall (Declared)
Tommy Klingsvall (Declared)
Mike Mauerer (Departed the Sea Org)
Leon Steinberg (Declared)
Quentin Hubbard (Deceased)
Brian Livingston (Declared)
–
Karen De la Carriere CLass XII CS (Departed the Sea Org and declared)
John Ausley (Declared) (Deceased)
Ron Shaffran (Declared)
Merril Mayo (Declared and deceased )
David Mayo Class XII CS (Declared)
Jeff Walker Class XII CS (Declared and deceased )
Murray Chopping Class XII CS (Declared)
Russ Meadows (Declared)
Alex Gerber (Declared)
John Eastment Bus driver at Gold Base.
Robin Lindsell Class XII CS (Declared and Deceased )
Paulette Ausley (Declared)
Alex Sibersky (Declared)
Gwen North (Declared)
Ray Mithoff (Provisional declare by Miscavige)
Carolyn Webb
Alain Kartuzinski Class XII CS (Off tech Lines) (deceased)
Minty Alexander
Alan Stave ~~ departed the Sea Org.
Myriam Stave (OT VIII) (Deceased)
Ted Cormier (Deceased)
David Gellie (Permanently ORDERED Off tech Lines by RTC)
Rick Sheehy (Permanently ORDERED Off tech Lines by RTC)
Peter Buttery (OT VIII) (Permanently ORDERED Off tech Lines by RTC) (deceased)
Claire Reppen (OT VIII) (Deceased)
Bodil Tucker
Tony Rogers
Linda Sydejko
Malin Gelfan
Richard Reiss, Snr C/S FSO, Class XII CS (deceased)
Lisa Rentschler
Carole Schwartz
Rick Alexander (Off Tech Lines permanently)
Jo Struthers (Departed the Sea Org)
Pierre Ethier (Departed the Sea Org) (declared)
Jim Sydejko (Off Tech Lines permanently )
Ingrid Keller (Departed the Sea Org)
Peggy Eastment is now Treasury at Gold Base.
Ann Glushakow
Edie Lundeen (Off Tech Lines permanently )
Bruce Glushakow (Departed the Sea Org) Declared suppressive.
Jerome Bloom
Nina Paull
Sheryl Weigand Had Tumor growing in brain and not allowed on Base in CW, no data on present state
Hank Bourland
Norman Herring
Sheri Rabey
This list of names compiled by Pierre Ethier, Class XII. I added INFO on some of them.
Karen, you are amazing. I don’t want to wind up in session over this statement 🙂 but don’t you think there is something the matter with someone that travels around the world declaring Class XII auditors SP’s? I do not want to cover all my reasons for thinking this, but one is that it takes a lot of training, interning and auditing to become a Class XII and an OT. If a person made it to OT VII, Class XII then it only stands to reason that his or her ethics MUST have actually been IN at SOME POINT IN TIME along the way to actually reach that level and state of being. So why the declare? Karen, I would absolutely die if I had to live with the odor of DM’s feet every day I would vomit. This universe was not built in a day but it will last a lot longer than one day that’s for sure! 🙂
stunning.
Ditto
Love this list, Karen.
I wish so whole-heartedly that somehow this could be known to the INs. I can’t honestly say whether or not it would have given me pause for the majority of my 100% IN devoted blind-nothing-else-is-true years. But…somehow…some….some…how…I hope.
I hope that had I seen this list, it would have at least given me pause.
Thank You.
OMG! It’s hard to handle sometimes the comm lag created being across the vastness of this planet to keep track of communications on blogs like this but what does one say to so much hard won expertise attacked and ridiculed?
Thanks for the data Kas and Kudos to you. You fight the only fight that leads anywhere, lonely as it is.
Thanks for this detailed information, Karen. The INS should read how 98% of the Class XII’s have been declared. That alone would tell them that there is something rotten at the top. One minor possible correction: I heard that Edy Hoyseth died withint the last 3 years. Can anyone confirm if she is alive or dead? I really admired her command of the tech and her beingness. We were on internships together.
I don’t see Greg Wilhere on that Cl XII list? Sandy (deceased?) was auditing L’s in the 12-2 HGC in ’84 and she isn’t on that list either. That was before they were sent to open the AOSH ANZO
OK. HOW do you create Class XIIs when the SHSBC is no longer being delivered anywhere? For that matter, WHO is making auditors? Certainly isn’t in the idle morgs, nor the new and ideal mission network…. How can you have a network with no missions, anyway? Have there been ANY recent stats on # of Class IVs or Vs made, WDAH? Suspect both have been at zero since GAT; and staff hasn’t been paid since GAK was announced to great fanfair…. Way to GO, dwarfenführer! “Read it, Drill it, Do it” has become the new “fast flow” training technique, and the only way you could GET “Class XIIs” in today’s world. Talk about “quicky”. That’s a REAL quick one to pull over ususpecting pre-OTs’ eyes.
Off topic, but thought this was pretty funny…just saw a story about Trump University, a former official says that students were pressured to raise their personal credit limits, supposedly to prepare for careers purchasing real estate…but then the school would manipulate them into using that newly available credit to pay for the “next level” of classes at the school instead!! Sounds eerily similar to the practices of CoS…if Trump isn’t elected President, maybe he can offer his “talents” to the cherch instead!!
I was thinking the exact same thing, Kathy. And Trump U also wants their students to fill out something like a success story. Maybe Trump is a cult unto himself….
Ditto – just read that before leaving work and though the same.
It may take a human wrecking ball to trump Miscavige.
The current administration has already borrowed many tools from the scientology and OSA tool box. This stuff is known and available to the minions and ‘rank and file’ of all ilks — without being a current member or shill of scientology.
Mike, you’re so funny. I was frequently regg’d that way. Whatever they wanted to sell was always, always THE thing, that was going to change everything/handle everything, etc. etc. Fortunately I always listened to this sort of thing with a grain of salt. I did get wins but not necessarily the ones that were promised, and that was ok with me.
But let me add this: once I did a course or an auditing action, that was IT. I was DONE with that course and auditing action. I never repeated anything. Refused to do so. When they argued I pointed out that their problem was with their own Qualifications Division, not with me. They did get me to buy 2 sets of Basics though, dammit.
C’mon Mike – using pictures of 1920s Weimar Germany, that’s not fair … to Weimar Germany!
It’s easy to move the goalposts when you can just throw random letters and numbers together. “I just finished the Y23 Defenestration Sector Wombats last week and I feel like I can move mountains .. on Mars!”
I learned many years ago that claims for scn services are massively exaggerated, Method one was supposed to help you recover your education, it did no such thing, we looked up some words I was interested in and that was that, no sudden understanding of math, science or any other the other subjects I flunked. Looking at supposed clears I could see that they still had their fears, phobias and health problems, so yet again another lie, yet so many of them never question this, just make up justifications for it. It’s not hard to predict that the results from the so called ot levels are also massively exaggerated, if they weren’t then scions would now be people to be respected, rather than derided.
Now get THIS guy up the bridge, fast!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=5CySLnwACs0
Snake oil sales. Pretty much sums up all of Scientology’s advertising.
If you take the hype/lies out of the Church of Scientology you are left with only one “product” – nothing. Sort of rhymes with static doesn’t it?
The only good advice concerning all Scientology organisations or entities is to stay the hell away from them but do whatever you do in the privacy of your own home or private property, without being ridiculous and/or harming others of course. That right should always be respected, no matter what others may think about it.
I am however beginning to believe that legislation should be conceived about a warning label of some sort being placed on all Scientology advertising that requires money (donations) or servitude in exchange for it. Something like the warnings on cigarette packets including the results of legal action cases or suits brought against all Scientology organisations worldwide. It should also be demanded that Scientology release the figures of exactly how many people they have declared/excommunicated and how many members have been coerced to disconnect from members of their own families, as well as the figures of resign rates for further services. The historical and present guidelines of expected behavior within the Church needs to be open and transparently affixed to all Scienological advertising – it is a tax exempt entity isn’t it? The general public supports it and hence has a right to be aware of what others involved with it have experienced.
Ist Amendment rights should be means tested for profit making and the related activities of management members of said organisations who use it as a legal defense. Money in all bank accounts connected to such organisations should be disclosed for public scrutiny. Democracy should be allowed to breathe, not be hamstrung by lawyers.
(I’ll wake up in minute, I Yawnalot).
This is totally unrelated: I’ve seen some obvious photo-shopped images of the SMP opening and I can’t figure out if the pictures were taken off the official images posted by Scientology or somebody did it to make Scientology look bad (and in that way make critics look really bad). Can anyone tell me?
Ehrm, someone already has told you (critics at Tony Ortega’s underground bunker) and you don’t trust them, what’s the point of telling you again?
And I think you should look for yourself, I’m sure that addresses for the photos (from the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology itself) were given.
Just one thing: Unless you trust the Co$ implicitly, you should look into using a proxy (to mask you IP address) and make sure you use a system which does not get viruses.
Pfft! Sandy Dodwell (flag service consultant) at Stevens Creek, personally gained the certainty to facilitate others going up the Bridge? Where’s her certainty on how to get people to come in the front door? They barely had any staff at Stevens Creek, let alone the public. (The PES held about 98% of the hats in that division “from above”, for example.) What public do get brought in were then pounced upon by every staff member (all desperate for the “fresh meet” to make their quotas) to either join staff or buy books & services. And thus they routinely hounded public until they were right out the door again.
I think DM should create a new stat, not for curing people by Scientology but for curing people OF Scientology! That one would be straight up and vertical.
I can see it now…the “G’s”…Gullibility Rundown:
Scientology has cured more people of religious zealotry than ANY other religion on the planet!
Our Class XII Registrars will pull all your withheld funds, allowing you to wake up to what is really happening!
The “G’s” will find & press all buttons of Guilt and Gullibility on your track that trick you into donating to Greed in exchange for empty promises “eternal freedom” or “saving our planet”.
Once you have completed the G’s, you will no longer fall for any of it, and can safely be at Cause over Gullibility, leaving Scientology forever unsuccessfully sending you pleading promo without a twinge of Guilt to cloud your eternity!
It worked for me anyway. The most valuable service I received, senior to all others, because the “G’s” ARE the Bridge! I got “cleared” via the “G’s” shortly after TR’s & Objectives…
I listened to Ned Branch give his win as first public to do L 10.
Very amazing. Next week was a public who had breakfast with LRH the day before.
Now it’s a whole different game. BI’s, or not ass kissing D.M. you get beat up.
The fabric of the time/space universe was altered upon completion of my scientology process. I knew I was the force out of which theta is created. I postulated the energy that became the mind of LRH! Today I’m an insurance salesman with a second mortgage.
It’s a curious thing … and then it isn’t really when you think about it. For instance, I know from personal experience on all flows that it can be extremely valuable to run out incidents R3R style. Forty years ago I audited a friend after she had been raped. My last pc was on the BC, gave a young woman her first session … took four days to run out an abortion we got a very good result. I audited people on deaths in the family, got much auditing myself and CSd hundreds and hundreds of people running out physically and emotionally painful incidents. An actual cognition …. a realization about one’s life is a VERY valuable thing that can be used to improve one’s life.
Very valuable. BUT … did LRH pitch cognitions or “merely” great relief from terrible incidents in DMSMH? Anyone who’s read the book knows he did not. He pitched becoming a “super being” … “clear” with all the super powers detailed in “book one.”
And that never stopped. LRH is the one who called NOTS “living lightning” and used hyperbole on every single action he put together (and remember, I’m the guy who posts here who said he had great wins in 35 years in Scientology).
So goes the human need from religion. Just feeling better or leading a happier and more fulfilling life? C’mon now, my fellow earthlings. ETERNAL LIFE!!!!! SALVATION!!! SITTTING ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF THE CREATOR HIMSELF IN HEAVEN!!!! ONE WITH THE WHOLE UNIVERSE AND EVERYTHING IN IT BREAKING THE CHAINS OF LIFE AND DEATH!!!! (and don’t get me started on the 70 virgins in paradise, ok? I need to get to bed here in Asia and time is limited) and it goes on and on and on ….
People want THE BIG ENCHILADA from religion, they want the moon and everything beyond it, they expect no less from their sacrifices, be it all their money or all their pleasure.
Yes, LRH knew what the folks wanted and so that’s the way he pitched it. And Scientologists are still looking for the “Book One Clear” and every single new action since 1950 essentially promised that. They’re still waiting and hoping …. OT9 … yeah, that’s it.
“Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet. Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.” – Napoléon Bonaparte
“Puny Humans.” – The Hulk
+1! Outstanding post, Joe! Bravo! What part of Asia are you in?
Hi OSD … I live in beautiful Chiang Mai, in the mountains of northwest Thailand (though I have also worked and traveled throughout much of Asia).
You’re living the life, Joe! And it’s all your create.
Yeah … certainly living MY life, which is all I can ask for (along with the Warriors continuing to win of course). Recently visited Naples and Sicily so I want to continue to see the world? You in SoCal? (I go there too every year or so).
The key to religion: You are special. The universe revolves around you (and will End in your lifetime). Questions are hard – here are the answers.
You mean the universe does NOT revolve around me? And I’m not special? Well that sucks!
Hi Joe Pendleton, A really great post.You captured the whole Ron ball of glitter sales pitch perfectly.Thank you xo
Very good point Joe. Probably one of the key things that get and keep people hooked for so long is the relief and cognitions genuinely experienced from basic level stuff and then the implanted hope of a promised nirvana. (And in the meantime, anything positive that happens to you or that you are responsible for also magically becomes the exclusive domain of scientology.)
Dave,
Hype Update:
One has bin studio. A handful of Hollywood has bins. One charles-manson-like depraved cult leader.
The only howls are the howls of laughter. The homeless are jeering on your demise because they are restless to return to their preferred location adjacent to your unused studio.
According to your mentor, without howls, you cannot possibly be winning or succeeding.
Since Charles Manson was, in fact, a member of the Church of Scientology, I wonder if they had a memorial to him when he died in prison? I mean, it seems like the right thing to do, right?
The old evil one still lives, reports of his death were a hoax.
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/manson.asp
Has Charlie done OT 8 yet?
Course he has, apparently all Cult leaders, errrr Sources need it before Hubbard lets them on Target Two.
Manson isn’t dead yet, so I don’t think they had a memorial.
http://www.gossipcop.com/charles-manson-dead-death-hoax-suicide-note-died/
Um…I just checked Wikipedia.
Apparently that walking waste of mass and energy is still breathing.
And speaking of a cult that’s in worse shape…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alzfxI7wYM8
And then there’s the Marine Corps:
http://nomosshere.tumblr.com/image/145285389267
Charles Manson is dead? Last I heard he was engaged to be married.
I’m pretty sure that Charles Manson is still alive and living in Corcoran State Prison in California. However, one of his co-killers is set to be released soon, Leslie Van Houten was recently granted parole by a 2-person parole board and will be getting out. Unless Governor Brown vetoes it. I don’t think Scientology claims Manson as one of it’s own. The C of S can be faulted for a lot of things, but probably not the crimes of Manson. Just my opinion. I wish it were a viable self-help group, but there is too much to indicate that L. Ron Hubbard created it to get rich and well-known, and that it does not do what it promises to do. I’m all for looking into alternative therapies and so forth, but just as happy to discard things that don’t work or are harmful, and I do believe this organization is harmful. Disconnection policy alone is enough to make me say, I’ll pass on that one.
IIRC Jon Atack recently told Manson had had over 150 hours of auditing, which was more then Atack had himself. And Jon is OT IV or OT V.
not yet. He’s still alive. Criminon might be planning something.
I think you will find that Charlie is still alive…
Charlie Manson is still alive. He almost got married last year. I guess she dodged a bullet. Or was it a knife?
This is good news and bad news if it’s really true
that Manson is really dead.
If they did, that’d be really bizarre, since Manson’s still alive.
Ok, ok…my bad! Sheesh! I thought he had died. Is he on course at Corcoran State Prison?
no worries surf guy.
Charles Manson PC Folders are at Flag
and maybe,just maybe .
whoops! I didn’t realize that anyone else had already answered when I replied… I guess the answers just sit, unseen by us, until Mike Rinder approves them, sometimes one by one or other times, a bunch at a time. So it looks like we are all ganging up on you, when actually everyone thought they were going to be the one and only answer – I know I did anyway, lol. But nope, I’m just one of the crowd. Sorry OSD. :p
Ok, a naive question but if each scientologist is spending years blowing charge on the whole track, achieving wins only to find more and more obstacles that need more and more auditing and courses, never reaching the carrot… Basics – check (cheque), L’s – check, OT’s up to VIII – check, Super Powers – check, now OT IX and X….
At what point do they realize or even conceptualize that all was for nought? If they’ve lived through all this, clear wasn’t enough, Super Powers wasn’t enough, OT VIII wasn’t enough, good grief how does the lie evade them for so long? I completely understand the Sea Orgers as they rarely get to progress but for those like say TC who’s “done it all”, paid it all and still can’t maintain a successful marriage, how the hell do they justify failure when they’re almost at the end of the bridge. At some point the lie must reveal itself, good on everyone who allowed that dawning and got out.
That’s just it. There is no point in Scientology where you reach the final level and you’re all done. Where’s the cash flow in that? There is no point where you can say “I have achieved 100% maximum ability.”. No, there always has to be the next level to achieve and fork over cash for.
Which is actually hilarious. Because… Scientologists are trapped in Scientology.
If a Scientologist actually believes they are an immortal thetan that created all the universes… and using Hubbard’s “teachings” help that person to recover their thetan identity completely…. then they should have no further use for MEST, as they are above it… and so they should have no more use for a “Church” as that is just MEST. So, once they cognite their thetannessness, they should NOT be in Scientology.
That’ll be 10 million thetabux, please.
Will you take a cheque?
Cashiers check, yes. Otherwise, no – no bouncies allowed. I will also accept credit/debit card or cash. I am generous like that.
I think that’s why people spend years and years on OT VII. So they keep paying, keep going, with another goal, OTVIII to reach. Once they hit that top level, that’s it, there is nothing more to achieve, and the money stops coming into the C of S, so you hear of people spending 10 years or more self-auditing on 7.
Personally, I think that once something becomes a ‘habit’ it’s hard to break it, in that it becomes a set part of your life… so you have your morning cup of coffee, you take a walk every day, you read your favorite website, or whatever ritual or daily activity you have, or you self-audit on OTVII, it becomes a part of your routine, as humans are creatures of habit. So you don’t really think about the things that you have pre-programmed yourself to do. You automatically heat your cup of coffee, or put on the tea pot, or go to the e-meter every day. So one has to make a conscious effort to say “what am I doing now, and why am I doing it?” I think that’s one of the reasons long-time members remain in the C of S. Habit and routine are comforting in a sense, it gives you a feeling of stability in your life. What would they replace it with?
It’s also a social group, and as long as more of their social circle remain in, so will they. But when the day comes that they take a look around them and see that more of their friends and family are ‘out’ than ‘in’ they may say “hey guys, wait for me…”
Now that I understand, the habit, the social component but I still have a hard time wrapping my head around the higher OT folks who must at some point self analyze and say “hmmmmm is it just me that hasn’t attained the EP as promised?”. I guess building in rules about not discussing your case comes in very handy for CoS. I think it’s reaching for the answers to some of these questions that helps people make their way out even if some still need the Indie crutch (no put down, I can understand cold turkey must be daunting). I find many ex’s I’ve talked to a bit smarter than the average bear, having the strength to face doubt is so commendable.
I agree with your comments about not discussing your case. I recall Steve Lower at FCDC annoying me at home with phone calls trying to handle me after I told him I was done and wasn’t coming back. I told him it wasn’t working for me and that I was starting to doubt that it worked at all, he replied in a very different tone of voice that “well this technology works for everybody”. I got the impression he was really trying to convince himelf of this and not me. I then told him I had talked to other people around the org who said it wasn’t working for them either. He got very upset by this and demanded to know who I have been talking to, I decline to tell him. What a clown he was and probably still is.
I think secrets always cause havoc, not being able to freely discuss the doubts is such a major indicator of it not working.
this is wonderful and commendable. So great to be able to just say what you’re thinking.
This very evening I was subjected to a long conversation from someone who explained in excruciating detail basics on the truth of mental pictures, charge, seeing it on a meter and blowing it. How one “can not deny it because it’s true”. A long ass lecture on the TRUTH of SCN and it’s undeniablility.
There is NO talking to such thorough certainty, and I wasn’t trying to. I was merely trying to acknowledge that each person has their own ideas of things and that this is fully OK. I am not trying to change anyone’s mind, but I also want that granted in return.
In is In and there is no ability to allow others to have any other opinion, and they don’t even SEE that.
I’m I’m so glad that you are finding your own answers Secretfornow, really appreciate your posts.
If those evil transcriptionists with their semicolons hadn’t messed things up so long ago.
Yeah, those are the straws that people will grasp to believe they are on the right path.
You’re asking the $64 question. The TOTAL FREEDOM scientology sells the bridge to would have to be self-sufficiency. Self-sufficiency means there is no need to enlist outside help to manage unpleasant thoughts or feelings stemming from a sense of lack or loss. You wouldn’t have a sense of lack if you were self-sufficient. That means you wouldn’t need scientology. The only valid “win” a person could get from scientology would be an ending of the need or desire for it. Obviously scientology aims to create dependency not self-sufficiency.
The only thing that wins in $camology is the Demented One at the very top who controls the bank accounts.
Hi justmeteehee, I loved your post.The point you bring up about tc and his constant need to scream his cos alligence from the rooftops 24/7 he does look a fool.The great myth of the OT levels ,it seems no matter the year and the passage of time,David and the Cult have all the answers for everything.They can no longer see any Truth but cos.xoxo
Hi Ann, it’s just that every time I read one of these successes they never actually say anything… Spirals, blowing charge, more beingness. Just once I’d like to read; I threw away my hearing aid or my spouse and I pulled our marriage back from the brink or I got that promotion or I brought unbelievable joy to someone and changed their life for the better. All this vague BS is just annoying, it takes me back to the Jason Bague interview and his imitation of the phoney smiles telling him how awesome the next level is while sneezing etc. It all just sounds so laughable really! xoxo Elizabeth
You’re right. It is laughable.
Don’t forget to look into mind control. There’re a couple of brilliant books about it. Just one is called, Take Back Your Life. It is not written by scientologists but is a collaboration of two people who got out of cults.
Another is written by an ex scios, Sell Them A Piece of Blue Sky by Jon Atack. If you Google, you’ll find a list of books on the subject. One good author is Steve Hassan, ex Mormon. I recommend you do this so you can understand.
Blue Sky was the second I read, at this point I’ve literally read them all. I’ll look for Take Back Your Life, thanks Dawn!
it’s that same conundrum that all faiths go through… why do people who live a life following all the precepts of their chosen faith still have terrible things happen to them? if God’s so great, why do children die?or tornadoes rip through people’s houses?or whatever? Scn is a little different because they put it all on YOU if you don’t have all these amazing things happen to you. The success stories are key, because even though NO ONE has ever experienced what Hubbard promised, they all lie to themselves and each other that YOU just aren’t working hard enough, or haven’t paid enough money or you must have done the old version of whichever level, which means you have to start again. every Org, except yours, is full of people! and that’s how they keep people from realizing what a crock of shit it all is. but that is not working so well anymore, (and not only in scn, but in many faiths) bc there’s the Internet and people have the ability to see beyond their own doorstep, if they choose to look,and see that the Paradise promised is not to be had.
I think the difference between Scientology and all the “Big Man in the Sky” religions is that there is such a dichotomy between simple tenets of faith (like believing things like a virgin birth on faith) and the guilt ridden concept of “it works for 100% of the people 100% of the time” if the tech is applied correctly. Hubbard built in a fail safe excuse if everything in your life isn’t going perfectly… It’s your fault for doing it wrong. Carrying guilt about not being as able as everyone else in a group (even though at one time or another all must have felt they were the screw up) it helps me understand things like Lisa McP breaking with reality. Reading the utter and profound degradation of some like Jefferson Hawkin’s, I can’t even imagine the guilt of blaming oneself. I think the consequences component to Scientology is quite unique. Unlike intangibles like lakes of fire and the like, the thought of being off loaded from family, losing all the people close to you, the financial burden, always trying come up with cash, the dictates of must attending and self isn’t as important as “the greater good”, marginalizing the family unit to “2D”. I think I takes real bravery for a Scientologist to defy and question because there are tangible and immediate consequences that just don’t occur in other faiths or even philosophies.
It becomes an addiction of sorts, imho. An urge to replicate that huge, euphoric, life-changing, mind-altering, couldn’t-stop-laughing-for-a-week cognition you had once or twice years before and to reinforce the belief you really are an elite super being. Eventually it’s habitual. It doesn’t matter so much not having proper magical powers. You believe you have something…like that time you wanted the traffic light to turn green and it did…or when the subway train stopped and the doors opened up right where you were standing on the platform…or when that pigeon cooed at you…etc. Assigning spiritual significance to the mundane world of randomity and coincidence – whether it’s blaming hangups on past lives, “karma”, or that you made shit happen by the power of your mind – is imho how you start building your very own ‘prison of belief’. #my2cents
Never underestimate the power of the ego to maintain the belief that one is right despite the bleeding obvious fact that they are not.
Scientology comes from an enormous ego, it is very good at enhancing egos and the ego is a very effective guard for the prison of belief.
Cris and Roger Hornaday, you make excellent points about both the ego and the fostering of dependence, a double whammy of seduction.
Seduction is a good word to understand part of it. But only a part. Don’t forget intelligent people genuinely searching for answers, or vulnerable people. But more importantly, don’t forget “mind control”.
Also, people judge others by their own standards, usually. If you’re a good person, want to help others and so on, you don’t doubt others, con artists for instance, thinking them the same as you. Is that naive? Sure, but it’s trusting and decent people do trust first, before learning that they’ve been hoodwinked.
It’s a process.
I have zero doubt that a “ruin” isn’t just the initial attraction, finding something bigger than yourself that is presented as a way to help mankind as well as yourself is an admirable thing. I get the whole induction thing. I still have difficulty with people staying through the higher OT levels just from the horror I’ve heard so many talk about from OT VII. The BT battle just sounds exhausting. Knowing that so many good, decent, intelligent people have been boiled like the proverbial frog along the way makes me feel much compassion for most still-ins and it’s why I rejoice seeing newly out folks like Secretfornow waking up.
Re the success stories add the fact that RTC has to approve them, ask the parishioner to change it as many times as needed if RTC or Pompadour are not acknowledged, and approve it when it conveys miracles in the universe of Scientology.
Oh…30 Class XIIs? There were 50 not tooling ago. Where are the other 20? RPF? On Tour? Or also begging for money to cover the LRH Hall? Go wonder.
Forget the L’s. EVERY single claim in Scamology by El Con about ANY auditing process increasing a persons abilities BEYOND that of the average human is FALSE. EVERY SINGLE CLAIM.
Thus, logic dictates that auditing leaves one the same as other humans OR, worse. So, selling auditing for money is unethical.
You know, Mike, when I paddle out when the waves are like glass, I truly get blown away. Especially if my friends are with me. We cheer each other on and generally have a fantastic time in Mother Pacific. Then we all go out for breakfast together. It just doesn’t get any better!
Aaah, you’re taking me back. Breakfast at the beach. Of course I was at Venice, Malibu or Redondo, but you don’t need to be specific about your Pacific beach.
Huntington Beach. I started body surfing here in ’62 and board surfing in ’66. And I started surfing Hawai’i in ’68. All of my neighbors know about the cult as I made sure to tell them. So send your goons of you want because the police will be right behind you….
Did the chicks in Hawaii introduce you to indoor body surfing?
Actually I introduced THEM to that particular sport. I won’t say the name we used for this sport, so, I’ll just call it “Sport Sexing.”
I remember summer mornings while at Steamers many decades ago. Me, 5-10 other guys, waiting for the swell. Riding back in with the Unbelievable. Seems like we were made to be in the ocean. Sea Otters
We were….
Wow, that’s beautiful, OSD. I can just imagine it. One of my favorite memories is of spending a day in the ocean in Hawaii. The weather was perfect, the ocean was calm and serene. I swam out just past the point where the waves start to break, close enough to shore to still wave at people, but where you can just bob up and down gently with every wave, as it passes by and through, without moving in any direction, and became one with the ocean. No need to swim at all, the natural bouyancy of the salt water kept me afloat easily with no effort, like a piece of styrofoam floating on the top of the water.
That is still my ‘go-to’ memory in times of stress when I need to relax and recall a peaceful memory. (Used in the dental chair often, also when awaiting word of something stressful or before an anxiety-provoking event). Close eyes, just relax and fall back into the memory…. feel being back in the ocean, rolling with the gentle waves, warm sun on my head… random strands of seaweed tangling in my feet every now and then, lol. 🙂
Good for you, T.J. When I lived in the heart of Waikiki, I could walk to several surf spots. Ahhhhh…those truly were the days!
That was many years ago OSD. I’ve only been to Hawaii a few times and only on Maui and the Big Island, Kona side. This memorable day at the beach was at a beautiful little stretch of sand on Maui. I don’t recall the name of the beach, but I was in the water all day, went in at 10:30 or so, and didn’t set foot back on solid sand until after 5 pm. I think I only came out because I was hungry. These days I’m a Cali girl, and home is the SanFran bay area. I’d drop by to say hi but you are SoCal and I’m East Bay, Northern CA. Funny story: I had an online friend who was a local trucker in his state, he called one day and said “I’m in your area, I’m coming to visit!” I said really, where are you? He said, California, I had a load to drop off, I have time in my schedule to come by for an hour or so. I said, where in CA? He said, San Diego, how long will it take to get to your place…? I said about 10 to 12 hours! I guess coming from Tennessee, he didn’t realize CA was such a big state. And of course he didn’t make it by for that visit.
Hi Mike W,
I don’t believe one can make an across-the-board opinion like that on the effects of Scientology auditing on all individuals and have it be accurate because different individuals can have different experiences, wouldn’t you say?
Unless you would opine that anyone who believed that he or she benefited or had in any way increased ability or a release from some worry or anxiety due to auditing actually in fact did not have that benefit or release and is merely delusional, and if that is your opinion then you are certainly entitled to it.
Aqua, I would say, that the EXTRAORDINARY claims by El Con about ANY auditing process increasing a persons abilities BEYOND that of the average human is FALSE. EVERY SINGLE CLAIM.”
UNLESS, extraordinary evidence is produced to the contrary. EXACTLY like if I said that if you mix my magic formula (that I sell) with water and feed it to a horse, the horse will become a real unicorn that farts rainbows and I THEN didn’t provide the scientific PROOF.
Mike, you are right. I believe that euphoria was the common feeling after an auditing session. It did feel good, one can’t deny. Euphoria is like cocaine, you feel wonderful, powerful, there’s nothing you can’t do, nothing can get you down. I haven’t ever had cocaine (or any other drug except medicinal and then but a little) but I’ve read a lot about this. The effects are temporary. It didn’t change anything. It didn’t give one more powers, alleviate anything permanently and it certainly didn’t change one’s life for the better. Long term, it caused devastation.
I personally ran into big trouble after “clear”. My life was the worst it had ever been. I won’t go into details at this stage. It took getting out before I could repair things; and repair them I did successfully and have not been so consistently content and at peace.
Whatever benefit I had from auditing, it was short lived. Like a drug trip – after which one comes down with a plop (or a bang) and one craves the next fix.
Auditing never changed my life for the better, to the contrary. I watched the phenomenon with the other people around me too. I watched OTs in big trouble, healthwise, financially, personally, Ls completions still broke and struggling and so on.
What I’ve said here may offend a few. I realise that. However, I speak the truth.
Yes Dawn, I’ve heard it explained just like that from many who were in. I believe that is why people always talk about “wins” but can never explain in any cogent manner, new abilities gained that actually translate into the “homo novus” lie that El Con pitched. I believe it was/is a form of self hypnosis guided by the auditor (unknowingly to any involved but Hubbard).
I personally think you’re spot on.
I got massive massive wins. But all short term happiness, and no abilities. Maybe also, they impart a self perpetuated concept that one is “better” now. “I’m OT therefore I’m not as screwed up as I was because I had those wins back there”.
But I don’t see people actually changing much at all, except for things that might happen anyway as one matures. Confidence bred of competence.
A friend was talking about how she was all introverted and out of comm when she first got in. I laughed at her. “We were teenagers, we were ALL introverted and out of comm!” (and full of important feelings!)
The bottom line is that they are throwing it all at the wall to see if any of it will stick so they can pretend there is a reason for those shiny empty buildings.
People still in the bubble are so worn down from being force fed the shiny empty buildings, it would be hard to get them excited about anything short of a promise that if they did this or that rundown they would achieve freedom from nonstop calls, emails and letters. I bet if that was a rundown offered, people would pay huge bucks for the privilege of doing it.
And the people still in are OLD! Very OLD! When I was at the Model Idle Morgue in Pasadena, I saw a woman going in with her materials for whatever course she was on. She was OLD. And I’m sure she was probably redoing a course she had done 30 years ago. There’s no life left in the Idle Morgues….
Hey, I’m OLD. Of course, i’m OUT. That’s the difference. You, too are close to OLD what with impending grandpahood. My 18th grandchild will be here in approximately 18 days – my poor my great grandchild is still an only great grandchild.
WHAT??? Seriously, you have 18 grandkids??? What a great family you have, Valerie!
As of today, 17 grandkids, 1 great grandkid. My newest granddaughter is due Ju e 19 so any day …..
I love it Valerie!
18??? How awesome! I must say I envy you, kids at university so not needing me much and both not quite at the procreation stage… I can’t wait for grand parenthood. Looking forward to OSD’s brags 🙂
Yes grandma hood is awesome. Last night my 10 year old granddaughter and I were making bracelets and she said “we need to do this more often, we need to make appointments for just us time” how do you top moments like that?
You don’t. From one of my favorite all time movies, Valerie, “It’s a Wonderful Life!” You’re livin’ large, honey!
What a precious moment, Valerie! Make that appointment and keep it! You’ll have “key out and theta” to coin some phrases.
I am sad because both of my kids disconnected from me. Both were staff at the time and one has left staff and the other has joined SO. Both still drink the KA. I am sad to think they may get married (and have kids) without my being at the wedding and sharing any of it. Disconnection is suppressive and is a control mechanism of threat that DM uses to keep his flock in line.
“People in the bubble are so worn down from being force fed the shiny empty buildings…”
Yes, I think they are really sick of it, and worse, sick of pretending that they’re not sick of it.
@Aqua, I’m sick of watching the hype about them and I am on the outside. I couldn’t imagine having to pretend enthusiasm about them. It would destroy the soul.
Class 12 CS are even more rare
I know Class 12 CSs are rare, but, when do they become collectibles? I’d like to pick up a few….
If Swiftie puts Karen on eBay, I’ll bid for her.
Espiando 🙂
Regarding just last life recall:
Forget about last life recall. What about:
REMEMBERING WHAT YOU HAD FOR BREAKFAST 10 YEARS AGO?
Time dating presupposes that track memory is exact down to the second.
There could be a controlled study that gives a person certain foods, that are kept in a list that the facilitator also keeps an exact time schedule of, varying it.
After one month of this controlled experiment, have the person on the cans to time date every meal.
If a person is has total recall and memory of trillions of years ago, certainly one accurate month of “what I ate and at what time is a cake walk.
But because this recall business is a lie there will be no takers of this experiment.
Scientologist is the only “science” where when someone asks for proof, that person becomes an evil SP.
Proof and verification for the Scientists is his bread and butter.
Proof for the Scientologist is an evil SP space monster stealing wins and crushing goodness.
Think Ron’s recall question he asked of an early clear on stage. LRH was humiliated when he asked for the color of his tie but the “cleared women” did not know.
It’s humiliations like this that really gives purpose and meaning to the GO/OSA:
Crush those that need proof
That’s right! Crush them with impunity, I say!
And remember to never invalidate the preclear. If she said it was orange, it WAS orange.
Until it was something else ……………. in another life!
…on a different planet.
Hi Brian, Another sparkling post,thank you.xxoo
mike thank you so much for the effort you put in this… as a “never in” you have given me the info I need to stay away from this awful pyramid scheme……
I’d love a freezoner Class 12 explanation of why the Ls are such stupendous case advancers.
Is it the wholetrack overts run, and are they run by chains, and would people HAVE to be dealing with their past lives transgression chains?
Later FPRD auditing demanded past life transgression chains, and evil purpose chains, and then the bottom basic incident of an evil purpose created to solve a massive long ago problem in one’s long long ago past life basic problem incident.
The theory of Scientology’s highest jewels of processing, ought be simplified, and made easy to digest so persons interested in just understanding what of the whole massive lineup of the Bridge to Total Freedom processing processes (literally thousands of commands that make the patient/preclear delve into their minds and imaginations in various ways) could use a simpflified laid out well written description.
Not that outsiders would ever try the Hubbard myriad processes on themselves or other, but to just understand what really the Scientologists are supposed to get up to doing on themselves and others in order to alleviate their minds and free their souls.
Ah well someday, some smart person will defect from the ranks, maybe someday Ray Mitoff will get out, and give a full history of what’s happened the last 35 years since he’s been near the top tech-man driver’s seat.
Oh I forgot, Scientology’s don’t free their souls, they ARE their souls, sorry.
…my mind is unScientologistizing, I’m losing how to think like one.
Well done, Chuck. Now,THATS what I call progress!
YEEEEAAAY Chuck!
Your public unraveling is appreciated. You are very articulate and give a great birds eye view.
An aside:
One of the beautiful things about India and yogic philosophy and practice: (I’m experiencing colon madness. Sometimes I love colons)
It leaves a philosophic space for atheists. Think Buddhism. It is completely OK to not believe in anything. But the practice of stilling the mind needs no belief or faith.
The end result of stilling the body, mind and emotions is always more happiness. And it is that causless happiness that informs the meditation experimenter of inner realities.
In exoteric religions, ideologies are shoved down the throat and regimented faith and belief are essential. Doubt is denied or avoided.
In Yoga practice, faith and belief are non essential.
Calming the noisy monkey mind, and it’s result of being flooded with fresh energy brings about self knowledge as opposed to enforced believing.
Personal knowledge as opposed to regimented group think.
Constructive doubting then, is an essential part of seeking anything worthwhile.
Demonizing doubting is proof positive of an ideology not based upon experiential truth.
Constructive doubt is the threshold to new knowledge.
But constructive doubt, for Ron, was an evil nightmarish monster.
” But constructive doubt, for Ron, was an evil nightmarish monster.”
And per El Con, when found always attack, never defend. The next time that namby pamby pantiwaist dillatante even begins to question My written word he will tremble in his boots while doing conditions from the bottom up.
He was rather touchy about joking when it struck too close to home.
Yeah, baby! Way to go Chuck! (applause!). Now you’re truly living life on YOUR TERMS! You can do whatever the hell you want to do! All of us here are now giving you a collective pat of the back!
Chuck B. quite intelligently stated, “I’d love a freezoner Class 12 explanation of why the Ls are such stupendous case advancers.”
I’ve only had a chance to query a couple of them Chuck. But, upon a ruthless drill down, the ONLY real answer I got that held any water was that they could charge money for them from Indies.
The Ls are just freakin’ lists! They’re all just lists! Of normal everyday words! Yeah, that will make someone Super Human…
I’m stuck on there being more than 30 one-legged unicyclists, I’d like to imagine that they have a club with annual meetups.
haha, your mind works like mine. i was also sidetracked momentarily by that mental image 😀
My mind works like….ummmmmm….my mind works like…..ahhhhhhh….Oh the Hell with it.
liiiiiike….”what if Keanu”? http://tinyurl.com/ze4jn2j
They are two seater unicyles so one cyclist with a left leg and one with a right leg can work the cycle together.
THIRTY Class XII auditors? I thought they had made sixty, and all were Declared except for five. Anyone know for sure? GNOOURF!