OK, so how does this work?
You were Clear until the time you decided you should invent a reactive mind for yourself. Apparently something you created because you were bored? Then you forgot you created it. Trilli9ons of years later, L. Ron Hubbard “discovered” this and told everyone that addressing it (with an accompanying payment) with Dianetics would get rid of it. And that this would solve all your ills. And then after you paid for enough auditing to “go Clear” you would come to the realization that you were just “mocking it up” and that it was an illusion all along. So, if the object is to get everyone Clear, why not just tell them this up front?
Seriously, in all those trillions of years, not one single person ever remembered on their own that they had “mocked up” their reactive mind to make themselves act irrationally and get sick?
It is all quite confusing.
Actually, it is ridiculous.
“Well, scientology has the anatomy of traps…”
CERTAINLY that’s true. Like a roach motel, once you peek in to a scn establishment, you’re trapped by his ability to create the perfect slave.
Hello Bruce,
” A somewhat more important question would be “where Dave Miscavige would bury the body?”
I can well imagine he has PLENTY of graves dug to bury as many bodies deemed necessary. For instance we have YET to SEE or HEAR from his “beloved wife” Shelley. Oh sure, you can form an opinion, a guess, a shot in the dark as to where she MIGHT be, yet no one can confirm it 100%
Something is truly WRONG when the legal authorities take the WORD of ANOTHER person when a welfare check is done…that the person inquired about is well, happy, healthy & does NOT want to be bothered or SEEN.
Imagine all the FRAUD that can continue….as in a family member receiving a BENEFIT CHECK MONTHLY for someone yet that person has NEVER been seen in a DECADE OR MORE? Take MY WORD that so & so is well & just can’t be bothered to step forward……..
YUP, that’s right folks, just keep sending the damned check to ME that I lovingly CASH IN every month to care for ………………..who remains HIDDEN.
Think about all the people that David M & COS are still counting as “active members of COS”….some have died, haven’t been a member in decades, haven’t YET been “declared” so they are STILL counted as active members…or Flying Under the Radar…too afraid to cut the ties………..As is always stated “COS continues to GROW, that’s why we purchase all these building that remain EMPTY except for a few people that float in and out to make it LOOK occupied”….got to keep those tax roll discounts & freebies.
Lron has stated “Just keep my houses well stocked with booze, cigarettes, food, pretty hand maidens, & all other comforts I am use to”…..like Arnold Schwartzenegger once said ;
“I’LL BE BACK”…………
Lorraine, I’m sure they still have ME as “active”, though they kicked me to the curb 40 years ago and I’ve not darkened any org’s door since then. Of course, there WAS one letter I answered, and two phone calls, one before Caller ID.
Maybe they’re still counting Mike & Leah.
Naaaah! Their “membership numbers” are total fabrications.
I thought this was going to be about members who had their “clear” status revoked and had to do it again. I just saw a reference the other day to some having to do it 3 and maybe even 4 times.
I remember the era of “quickie” clears in Scientology, about 4 decades go – natural clears, past life clears, and so on. That was when Hubbard was still in control, apparently desperate to try to keep cash flow up as the baby boom and its flood of young “seekers” receeded, and standards (such as they are, for something imaginary) were relaxed for the sake of income and “stats”.
Scientology has never had the “tech” or the organizational competence to consistently produce anything of value, much less a state of “clear.” They’ve always foundered on Hubbard’s illogical and unscientific approach, and his organization’s imperative to compromise for the sake of expediency – and cash flow.
Werner Erhard of est (which eventually turned into Landmark) addressed the problem raised in the commentary, after seeing how cumbersomely Dianetics and Scientology operated, and took his knowledge of other things he’d also studied like Buddhism (some branches of which believe in forms of “instant” enlightenment) to create a program designed to get people to the same point of realization in 2 weekends. I’ve talked to people who’ve done the courses, and they do seem to often succeed in getting participants to the point that takes much longer through other disciplines like traditional meditation, starting to gain the perspective that we have a chattering “monkey mind” that is not actually our self.
I think the major thing which Ehrhard got from scn and used in EST, Ehrhard Seminar Training, was “What do you use to make yourself right and others wrong?”
An in depth intensive investigation of this concept might lead an examination of “Your Story” as I believe they referred to it and allow someone to leave behind various self descriptions.
Taking it a step further one might go into greater depth and look for “true self” which would be a timeless, non identified observer free of or at least not influenced by ego or mind “watching the never-ending Now go by.
Something like that. Haha
I think the main thing which Ehrhard got from scn and used in EST, Ehrhard Seminar Training, was “What do you use to make yourself right and others wrong?”
An in depth intensive investigation of this concept might lead an examination of “Your Story” as I believe they referred to it and allow someone to leave behind various self descriptions.
Taking it a step further one might go into greater depth and look for “true self” which would be a timeless, non identified observer free of or at least not influenced by ego or mind watching the never-ending Now go by.
Something like that. Haha
PeaceMaker, in the late ’70s, Ron was *nominally* in control, but already the CMO was controlling his comm, thus controlling scn. Davey snuck into control in the early ’80s, just before Hubbard died, or was essentially murdered, IMO.
They waited a LONG time after the first stroke to bring in Dr Denk, who was a scn unlikely to properly treat the patient against Hubbard’s protestations. Guys, no stroke is to be taken that lightly. He SHOULD have been immediately rushed to the best neurology Emergency Room around, as TIME matters.
When I had my stroke, I argued coherently with my wife against going to the hospital & almost convinced her.
She ignored my wishes.
The ER doc examined me briefly and AIRLIFTED me to the best place around, no real discussion.
Ron wasn’t given a CHANCE to recover, so died, IMO, of at least neglect.
Remember – You were clear once – trillions of years ago. Why didn’t you stay that way?
The reasons are quite simple:
. There were no Reges back then.
. There were no bank accounts back then.
. There were no credit cards back then.
. There was no way to transfer money off shore back then.
. There were no Swiss Banks back then.
And … the single biggest reason of them all?
The one reason that outweighs all other reasons?
Ready? Drum Roll? ……
There was no money back then!!!
So you couldn’t make the little weasel rich back then.
Besides …. there were no little weasels back then. Only filthy little rats that would one day evolve into weasels. With help from all of our little cats!
Skyler: Trillions of years ago, there was no Universe, so “clear” didn’t matter. 😉
A very expensive road to salvation.
So whose rembering that they’re mocking it all up? Me or the body thetans that are mocking my case up? I’m so confused!
Eh=Eh asked:
“So whose rembering that they’re mocking it all up?”
Seems it’s “not-you”, but all the BTs were of your creation, mocking them up to satisfy the auditor’s demands. They were ALL delusion, stories we made up for our amusement, so we could play the game.
Eh=Eh asked:
“So whose rembering that they’re mocking it all up?”
Seems it’s “not-you”, but all the BTs were of your creation, mocking them up to satisfy the auditor’s demands. They were ALL delusion, stories we made up for our amusement, so we could play the game.
Tubby SO loved him his games.
Trillions of years ago? Really? The universe is 13.8 billion years old. Lafayette was a petty, small-minded man that flunked out of math and science.
This topic is quite tantalizing. I remember some photos of Hubbard where he was on the meter. 1950s / 60s. His famous researches were performed on a galvalnometer or a meter mark V. With “fairly” reliable reads. Then at the end of the 70s (maybe early 80s) the mark VI arrived. But most of the ‘research’ had already been done. I really wonder what’s left that is true. The last meters should emphatize even more any invisible read that mark V couldn’t get. But the most of all Hubbard’s ‘breakthroughts’ was done o a woody mark V.
Actually it is possible to answer this question, Loosing.
Most of the “research” through the 60s and early 70s, which would include “real Clearing” John McMaster style and OT3 etc. was done on an oldy but woody MK IV. These were built with needle mechanisms from a company in the UK that really interacted with Hubbard about the meter design and came up with a mechanism that just yawns at can squeezes and finger wiggles but really takes off with actual mental reactions.
Meanwhile various folks came up with “improved” meters, added the dangerous battery charger and nasty nickel-cadmium batteries, used strange needle mechanisms and cheap parts. Most of these were called the MK V, but there was an American MK V with a taut-band needle mechanism that actually amplified finger wiggles and added strange bumps as the needle goes across the center of the dial.
Pat Flanagan, of “Pyramid Power” fame, came up with a version of the Azimuth Alignment Meter that had an external-magnet needle mechanism. This was so loose and floppy that it was basically showing a floating needle all the time.
Somebody gave Hubbard one of these meters in the late 70s. The thing that upset him the most was that it said “Delta Meter” on the needle dial instead of “Hubbard Electrometer”. But he also went on a tear about the quality, and the Hubbard Electrometer Manufacturing team was born to “fix” it. Soon after this the “yearly checkup” process appeared, and they would completely replace the guts of the meter to get rid of some of these whacky Delta meters and Flanagans etc.
Ultimately Hubbard came up with the idea of a “MK VI” Cadillac meter with a non-lethal battery charger, electronic TA counter and MK IV electronics. It has a “space age” elliptically-challenged plastic enclosure, but inside it is a MK IV. Charge tons of money for it, jack up Hubbard’s royalty payments to the moon, and get rid of those nasty weird MK V variations for good.
This sort of worked, but we were never able to find a needle mechanism that really worked as well as the old British ones. Lots of variations were tried, it’s not too bad, but if you put one up against a IV you can really see the difference. Same goes for the VII, Quantum, VIII, all using the same needle mechanism with different electronics.
All the lies about the “OT Meter” and super-sensitivity of the super Quantum, VIII etc. are just marketing hype.
A lot of hard work went into trying to replace the needle mechanism with an LCD screen, all wasted effort. LCDs of the time just weren’t up to it. Finally the Theta Meter guys did it, probably the best meter available now.
Bottom line, all the “research” was done with equipment that doesn’t exit anymore. So you could say it is now impossible to “duplicate Hubbard’s results”. Fact is, Hubbard never got any real results and ended up hunched over a meter designed to kill him, admitting to complete failure. So it doesn’t matter much.
Fascinating. Thanks for the history.
I was wondering if the LCD dial “needles” were any good. With zero inertia it seems that the galvanometer output would be the most accurate possible.
nomnom, As with any change, it would take getting used to. I doubt the LCDs duplicate the inertia of the needles, at a minimum, and likely don’t “swing” quite the same way. WHO cares, anyway. I won’t be getting on either side of either style in the next billion or so years.
Actually it is easy to emulate the ballistics properties of the needle using software. So an LCD meter can be made to look like a real one. The math is similar to the math they use to make Angelina Jolie’s assets bounce realistically in the famous video game.
You can also make a real meter needle act like it has no mass, or like it is stuck in honey etc. using analog feedback techniques.
Turns out that really light needles just spend all their time bouncing around and aren’t much use. Same for very slow needles. There is a happy medium that shows the mentally aroused changes in the tiny sweat glands of the palms without amplifying the tiny muscular tension changes. Or heartbeat.
Sadly, despite all the hard work we went through to make it work as well as possible, the meter doesn’t do and can’t do any of the magic tricks that Hubbard fantasized about. There is no “mental mass” or “charge” or sheets of energy involved. You can’t peer into the mind with it, or unlock the secrets of past lives, or find those pesky body thetans. It isn’t even much good at psychoanalyzing tomatoes.
Carl Jung tried to use a similar device in therapy decades before Hubbard and concluded it wasn’t much use. He was right.
Bruce, I’m aware of how physics can be approximated in computers, having played a few games which demonstrated it. One was a lifelike pinball machine, then there were the space games, including one game which simulated docking with a space station, including the funny orbital mechanics of being in orbit. In a pinch, I could have programmed the beasts, if I’d taken a *slightly* different career path.
Laughter
I was laughing at Jere’s comment but Bruce also gets a laugh for his comment. Lol
When I got into scn around 1975 my Mark IV meter cost $150 which was about a week of wages for a good wage earner. It worked as expected in auditing sessions. I’ve read that the manufacturing cost back then was under $20 so Elron was making big money even back then. I suppose the e-meter remains as a mystical,magical draw into scn. Lol
Metered auditing is the essence of scn. The e-meter made Hubbard and now Miscavige wealthy men.
Richard, coincidentally that is about the same time I got in.
The “starter package” including the Basic Study Manual, Hubbard Standard Dianetics Course, Life Repair with the Class VIII steps (includes objectives, now called the Survival Rundown) Minister’s Course and an E-Meter was $2650 including $150 for the meter. Do all that and you are ready to coaudit the Dianetics Drug Rundown for hundreds of hours.
Since the needle mechanism was closer to $65 in 1980 when I was working at Hubbard Electrometer, I’d guess the parts cost at closer to $80 in 1976. Lots of inflation in those four years.
In the Registrars office at Steven’s Creek Mission there was a stack of MK Vs on the floor. You could choose whatever you liked, British MK V, American Mk V or Delta Meter Mk V. The Delta had a TA counter that you could reset at the touch of a button so I got that, but found out in session that it just doesn’t show an F/N unless the PC is literally out of his head. So I just called F/Ns when the PC started perking up and that worked just fine. Mostly.
I made three Clears on that old Delta MKV!
Bruce – I’m sure myself and probably all auditors ended some sessions without a big, loose F/N. As long as they made it past the Examiner we escaped without a cramming order. Good enough is good enough!
BTW what “kind” of Clears did you make? . . . No never mind. Probably everyone like myself who ever “Attested” has their own version of what did or didn’t occur. 😇
Richard, back then we just called them “MEST Clear” or “Cleared Theta Clear” or some such. They got a nice certificate but then we took them back in for more Dianetic Drug Rundown sessions.
Drove their TAs up through the roof and put them unconscious sometimes, asking for more engrams after they already attested to having no engrams. , it wasn’t until years later that they got acknowledged as real Clears.
Then the whole Bridge was turned on its head, putting Dianetics after the grades instead.
Then even later yet Dave cancelled their Clear status. What a mess.
Of course, all it meant was that they had the “Clear Cognition” – that they were making it all up! Of course they were! None of it was real in the first place.
Richard Observed:
“Probably everyone like myself who ever “Attested” has their own version of what did or didn’t occur. 😇”
True dat! And a few got a great big CRASH soon after. Lisa McPherson was the poster child for that sort of tragedy and scn’s inability to handle depression even a little. I may have narrowly missed the same fate as she, but they decided that punishment and degradation was what *I* needed, so shuffled me off to the RPF — Re-education Project Force. Didn’t “take” for me and I said loudly that it was all ridiculous & not doing anything, so they just offloaded me to fend for myself.
LmR, my Mark V was a beauty after I refinished it; Rock solid and a joy to use…. UNTIL I sent it in for a required “inspection”. The movement after was never as smooth, I guess they replaced it with a cheaper component. By the time they came up with the Mark VIs, I couldn’t afford them, and then I was “out’a there”. I wonder if that V is sitting in my basement…. [Who cares? Ain’t never going on a meter again.]
Jere, nice story. Thanks. The mark V leave it in the basement.
The late P.T.Barnum was famously known for saying,”There is a sucker born every minute.”I suppose Mr.Hubbard capitalized on that.I just feel bad for all the former Scientology members that went into it with the best of intentions and came away hurt and disillusioned.Not to mention completely penniless afterwards.
Nancy, Wiki indicates it was not PT Barnum, but hucksters like Hubbard have lived by those words for ages. Dwarfenführer® relies on it to possibly replenish his dwindling stock of whales — and clapping clams.
The monetization of the state of clear is quite something.
HCO Sec checks have been invented to check on you re Clear.
And how is that “Out security?”
Then there is the matter of coughing up $5000 each time the client does
a Clear Certainty Rundown.
Frequently Clear is “cancelled” by CSes and back to CCRD.
I know a public that had 8, repeat 8 Clear Certainty Rundowns !
That is $40,000 to find out if they were Clear or not Clear!
Very well written with facts.
Thanks George.
Karen, I’d say that ONE CCRD would be a waste of money. 8 would be self-mutilation, specifically masochism. Either you feel it or you don’t, and it doesn’t take much to go from certainty to CRASH!!!!! Even one of those evaluative things can be too much for a poor PC/clear/whatever.
Thanks Jere.
Masturbation and Clear or not Clear are THE most monetized SEC CHECK swindles in the cult.
Yet old Ron himself infamously wrote as part of his Affirmations ‘Masturbation is not a crime!’ Clearly a case of ‘one rule for me, another for thee…’
Add to that watching internet porn on line. These are the things they Sec Check you forever on. I had a friend who had saved for years and years to get his OT V. He went to Flag and all that money for V disappeared in the first action, a Sec Check and you guessed it, watching internet porn. He came home worse than when he went there. He was crushed and in apathy about ever moving up the bridge again as it took him so long to save that money and now it was gone.
Oh GOSH! Karen, Hubbard was SO guilty-feeling about abusing his poor member, so HAD to make all the rest of us feel bad about what comes natural (so to speak) to anyone who has hit puberty. What a nothing-burger to spend far too much attention on. so WHAT if the person had a fantasy, or memory, about someone in private?
Aren’t we all clear anyway. Humans mastered there needs early on. We need food, water, shelter – clear or solved what ever you call it.
If we are attacked, we attack back – clear/solved.
The common sense answer would be as long as we solve our fear we are clear. Makes sense to me. We are a population of eager to know more and more.
My dad’ s favorite saying when I was a kid was Harness your mind and Harvest your dreams. Which means focus and make your dreams come true. My fathers other favorite saying was “If I have to lie, cheat or steel to be a successful businessman, I want no part of it. We were never rich, but we never worried about being clear.
How could anyone fall for this con? Lron stole his ‘cosmology’ from a 1949 short story by Robt Heinlein, Gulf.
I loved reading Robert Heinlein’s novels and thought he must have been the smartest man in the world. Of course, I was only ten years old at the time. But for a ten year old, his novels were full of interesting possibilities for our lives ahead.
It is no surprise that Tubby would have stolen his ideas from real ideas and passed them off as his own. He was a true con man – thru and thru.
Agreement, Skyler: Bob Heinlein was a brilliant thinker and masterful writer. Ron Hubbard was neither, but he knew HOW to run the long con.
Hey Jere. You are a man after my own heart.
I still read Heinlein. His stories were great. I read and collect old pulp sci fi. Hubbard outright stole ideas from several authors. There’s rarely a book I’ve read from the late 30’s thru the 60’s that I don’t find some idea that Hubs stole.
Zee asked:
“How could anyone fall for this con? Lron stole his ‘cosmology’ from a 1949 short story by Robt Heinlein, Gulf.”
If nothing else, Ron knew how to run a con game and trap any who showed any interest. Just enough truth to seem *reasonable*, particularly at first, then in small, well-rationalized steps, it got stranger and stranger. The full cosmology didn’t come until the final step, just little snippets which could easily be ignored. By OT III, even those who realized the Zenu story was impossible were trapped by their earlier decisions to “trust Ron” and plow on. “Beyond this point there be monsters”, and the biggest was Hubbard. BTW, SOME of the cosmology was E.E. “Doc Smith’s. “Lensman” or “Skylark” series, I forget.
One question for the Q&A show. Marc Headley had mentioned in an interview that there was a doggy RPF for Miscavige’s dog. Do you why his dog would have to go on the RPF, and what are the differences for the RPF for humans and animals?
It’s just my guess. But I would guess the dogs eat better.
Please someone assure me that Marc Headley was kidding and there is and was no such thing as a “doggy RPF for Miscavige’s dog.”
Sorry Aqua. But when it comes to the little Dwarfensquirt, there is just no limit to his depravity.
Not only would I guess there really is a “doggy RPF” but I would also guess there is also a “Doggie Bridge” and a “Feline Fridge” and the cost of crossing these are even more than the cost of crossing the human bridge.
Why?
Greed, Avarice and Gluttony. Yes. It is true. After a pet attains the state of “Clean”, there is a huge celebration banquet where the pets are eaten and washed down with 20 year-old Scotch.
Of course, only the Pipsqueak gets to drink the 20 year old Scotch. Everyone else gets to drink Kool-Aid from bottles that are labelled “Twenty Year old Scotch”.
Sorry Aqua. But when it comes to the Dwarfensquirt, there is just no limit to his depravity.
Not only would I guess there really is a “Doggy RPF” but I would also guess there is also a “Doggie Bridge” and a “Feline Fridge” and the cost of crossing these are even more than the cost of crossing the human bridge.
Why?
Greed, Avarice and Gluttony. Yes. It is true. After a pet attains the state of “Clean”, there is a huge celebration banquet where the pets are eaten and washed down with 20 year-old Scotch.
Of course, only Pipsqueak gets to drink the 20 year old Scotch. Everyone else drinks Kool-Aid from bottles that are labelled “Twenty Year old Scotch”.
“Everyone else drinks Kool-Aid from bottles that are labelled “Twenty Year old Scotch”
old PLASTIC water bottles labeled in Magic Marker, to boot.
Remember the Twit™ drinks has from a thimble, the only vessel the right size for his tiny hands.
He probably peed on his shoe……… or left a Dave on the floor.
Only difference is the dogs don’t have to scrub dumpsters with a toothbrush, they just lick em clean.
Newcomer, the dog would get a full meal by licking the dumpster clean. He’d get even FATTER than he already was.
Entheated asked:
“what are the differences for the RPF for humans and animals?”
The dog was treated better.
My clear cognition: I stopped mocking up Scientology.
Well…IT’S ABOUT TIME, Scribe!
Congratulations, Scribe. Hope it completely As-Ises soon.
The comments are better than the thread
Hubbard defined illusion as not knowing you were a thetan.. I paid $120,000 for this BS. If one has no knowledge of theta, according to Hubbard, the “I” in the thetan must fool itself about slavery and accept it. The only way you can thus have an immortal thetan is to have what I call “double perception” . The first perception is the native state which Hubbard later admitted was fascist. The second perception is the illusion. By running implants on OT VIII, one is thus set up for “cleared theta clear”. I ran out the implants to the bone. There is no double perception at the theta level. Perception is perception and it is singular. The only way to break through Hubbard’s illusion is to get out of Scientology completely and seek truth.
For $120,000 you learned to write a nicely “coded” letter full of hubbardisms. I guess this is good, but I’d really like for you to re-write this in a way all of us non scientologists could better understand. No need toimpress all the ex’s…Thank you kindly.
What should have been covered in the beginning was the fact that Hubbard invented his own definition of the human mind. When understood, this makes the hubbardisms unimportant.
Hubbard’s mind was clouded with his personal opinions about the universe and how it operated. Most of my understanding of Hubbard was from reading Blavatsky. Hubbard copied her but never gave her credit. In a way Hubbard invented his own Occult definition as well.
George, the BIG problem was that Tubby’s misinterpretation of reality didn’t WORK, no matter WHO he plagiarized.
Correct
I was trying to think of a way to say the same thing, thank you
Steve, sometimes, using the organization’s terminology is the only way to say it clearly, even to oneself. Lots gets lost in translation, since Hubbard mis-translated much or most of it in the first place, THEN mis-communicated it to his followers.
It is solely a case of people trusting an authority figure, what the authority figures says, and how arbitrarily the authority figure ‘mocks’ up things. If Scientology wanted to be taken seriously, they would have submitted every claim LRH made to a medical journal for review. They didn’t do this because he would have been, and were, laughed out of the profession of which he had no academic degree. In other words, he mocked all this shit up and people believed him because he was a charismatic authoritative figure, also known as a cult leader.
The crazy thing about Scientology is that even though it is all mocked up using this bullshit technique, the guy hit the target enough that he focused on the wins and ignored all the loses. My opinion is this is why Scientology is so crazy when you are Still-In, most of the ideas don’t work. The few that do, they are heralded as examples of the legendary abilities of LRH. Does anyone really believe that clearing engrams cured David Miscavige of asthma? I had childhood asthma, diagnosed by a doctor, and it was cured when I left the environment that had oil particles which were causing the inflammation in my lungs (old oil heated building). The placebo effect is a thing, but more than likely it had a cause real science could explain.
Yes, and we were all clear once because we were rational beings that believed in cause and effect, and real Science. We placed our opinions of authority in hands who could really be trusted, not those who break trust and ignore hundreds of years of using the Scientific Method.
I never understood how anyone could have bought Miscavige’s ‘Asthma cure’ story. So much of asthma is environmental. My dad suffered as a child with severe asthma growing up in the rural south. Dusty roads, lots of pollen and living in places with wood stoves for heat which created a lot of ash added to his misery (I still can’t separate him from the wood stove though no matter how hard I try). When he graduated high school he went out west to the desert. His asthma practically disappeared. When I started suffering asthma as a child we cleaned everything…finally getting rid of carpet in favor of hard wood floors helped more than anything.
Linear13, friends of ours took the same route: All wood floors, even getting hairless cats. Their parties are mostly outdoors, where there’s little dust and lots of clean air. Our mutual friends’ dogs are even welcome.
Not just to play “devil’s advocate” here, but there may have been any number of beings in trillions of years who remembered that they mocked up a reactive mind. Recorded history of Earth only goes back a few thousand years. Nothing was even written down about what the alleged Buddha said until hundreds of years after his alleged death .
If what LRH said actually happened , then numerous people may have remembered it and either were in no position to disseminate their remembrance or had no desire to. And who knows what beings may have remembered on a million other planets.
Joe,
I’m of a mind that it (enlightenment) happens often enough that there is a steady demand by people to somehow get that AH! HA!! moment back. Most of the time the trigger for something to break apart and the heavens to open up to them is unknown to them, and is meaningless to others. Plus they never had a chance to inspect what ‘blew’ and had no name for it. They do drugs, meditate, extreme diets, etc. to regain that feeling (win). Easy to get addicted to ‘highs’. Anymore I settle for simply being alive.
jim rowles and Joe Pendelton – Probably millions of people over human history have experienced moments of kensho or satori, either at random or through some practice like meditation and their descriptions are remarkably similar.
from wiki:
Kenshō[note 1] (見性) is a Japanese term from the Zen tradition. Ken means “seeing”, shō means “nature, essence”.[4][2] It is usually translated as “seeing one’s (true) nature”, that is, the Buddha-nature or nature of mind.
Kenshō is an initial insight or awakening, not full Buddhahood.[5] It is to be followed by further training to deepen this insight, and learn to express it in daily life.[6][7][8]
The term kenshō is often used interchangeably with satori, which is derived from the verb satoru,[9] and means “comprehension; understanding”.[web 1][note 2][note 3]
……………………………………………………………………..
This state of awareness if you want to call it that and whether brief or long lasting exists on its own without any backstory like Hubbard presented in scn.
Jim – Maybe like yourself, I’m taking a “sabbatical from spiritual questing” at the moment – lol
Right Joe: There’s no recorded history to put “fake” to Hubbard’s “past life” recollections. HOW did he, or anyone else reconcile that Hawaii and Las Palmas are each only a million or so years old, thus didn’t exist 75 million years ago? Did anyone even CARE?
AFAICT, he came up with those outlandish lengths of times: TRILLIONS of years ago??? Yeah, RIGHT.
Let’s think about this now:
A young man steps forward & states that he is “the reincarnation of Lron Hubbard in his newly assigned “meat body”.
This young man can recall EVERY DETAIL of Hubbard’s former life…recall his parents, siblings, entire childhood, where he lived, his education & military service, his love affairs & marriages, wives, children & his “inventing COS” & the reason behind it. He can also recall where all the DIRT IS BURIED….all the recordings of Audits he’s listened to & laughed at.
He knows where all the money is “buried”…all the off shore accounts, financial investments, world wide real estate owned by COS……& even recalls his illness & death.
Ahh…the BIG question is when he WHO would believe him & how would be regain control of COS from David M.
A somewhat more important question would be “where Dave Miscavige would bury the body?
Not to suggest actual physical violence, that could be considered to be defamatory, but certainly the Real L Ron Hubbard would not last long once Dave got the word.
I remember Dave told us something like “That mansion for Hubbard up on the hill? It’s not for a monument.” And truly the place is set up to be occupied, has a great library and bedroom, indoor pool, full 35 mm surround sound theatre etc. etc.
So maybe the Real L Ron Hubbard Redux will live the life of Reilly commuting between his 10 or so huge mansions, attended on every hand by nubile maidens, completely out of the public eye and unknown to the outside world. That is the best that could happen. Maybe he will be put on full time “research” to somehow come up with something that could be called OT 9 and 10.
One thing that won’t happen no matter what is any sort of second fiddle action for Dave. Nope Nope Nope.
If Ron really did come back as an OT 53 after years of bodyless “research”, I imagine he could just shove the being that is now inside Miscavige’s body out of the way and take over … In fact, he may already have done that … Or maybe he’s now in Tom Cruise’s body digging the high life … Or in Kirstie’s body, haha … ok, probably not …
Thats a great question. I listen to that nut on youtube, mind you, I find him entertaining, why hasnt he seen the pot of gold?
Lorraine, to get the facts right, all he/she/it would have to do is read “Blue Sky” or “Bare Faced Messiah”. Easy-Peazy. History of Man” would give them a jumping-off point to OT 9 or greater. Pretty much everything up through 8 is on the web. If he’s going to supplant Dwarfenführer, he’ll have to get even MORE Machiavellian than the tiny tyke, perhaps pound the Kid to a pulp, to “get his attention”. To establish his bonafides, he should write some bad fiction and submit it to fanzines.
Yo Dave,
Better let Danny Masterson know that he was just ‘mockin it up’. Never happened!
Nothin to see here folks, just a fine bunch of folks ‘bringing sanity to the peoples of earth’, one three cent phamphlet (sold for a buck) at a time.
Actually, $cientology is ridiculous ……… and confusing ………. and on and on.
Right Newcomer:
“Actually, $cientology is ridiculous ……… and confusing ………. and on and on.”
There’s nowhere to run-on to for scientology